2018 World Cup qualification

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Re: 2018 World Cup qualification

Postby paquebot » Thu Sep 10, 2015 1:12 am

nzfooty wrote:The US should easily get out of this one. Btw, they got trashed 4-1 by Brazil today. Aren't people there getting tired of Jürgen Klinsmann?


Any particular reason you say that?
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Re: 2018 World Cup qualification

Postby nzfooty » Thu Sep 10, 2015 10:34 am

paquebot wrote:
nzfooty wrote:The US should easily get out of this one. Btw, they got trashed 4-1 by Brazil today. Aren't people there getting tired of Jürgen Klinsmann?


Any particular reason you say that?


My understanding is that he has been seen as a fraud in Germany, into pseudo-science, failure at Bayern and with Joachim Löw being the brains behind the German NT when Klinsmann was in charge.

He had a shaky WC 2014 qualification process with the US, did OK at the finals though (the order of fixtures helped a lot). However, the loss to Jamaica at the Gold Cup and his approach to certain issues seem to be -ves.

Perhaps it is unfair to single out the loss to Brazil as the US did well in some other friendlies recently.

I have personally nothing against Klinsmann. Hated his diving as a player when I lived in Germany but in other aspects he seemed like a reasonable chap.
Haven't followed him in the German press for at least a quarter of a century, nor his stint as the US coach all that closely so yu will definitely know more than I do. Are you satisfied with the job he is doing?



nzfooty wrote:CONCACAF - Third Round
** - qualified for fourth round

Curaçao 0–1 0–1 El Salvador**
Canada ** 3–0 1–1 Belize
Grenada 1–3 0–3 Haiti**
Jamaica** 2–3 2–0 Nicaragua
Saint Vincent and the Grenadines** 2–0 1–2 Aruba
Antigua and Barbuda 1–0 0–2 Guatemala**

2015 CONCACAF Gold Cup runners up, Jamaica where close to being knocked out by lowly Nicaragua. After losing 2-3 at home, Jamaica got the required 2-0 in with a minute left in the match.
Antigua and Barbuda were also close to an upset but not quite.

CONCACAF Fourth Round

Group A

Mexico
Honduras
El Salvador
Canada

Hard looking group for our Canadian friends.

Group B

Costa Rica
Panama
Haiti
Jamaica

This one looks very even.

Group C

United States
Trinidad and Tobago
Saint Vincent and the Grenadines
Guatemala

The US should easily get out of this one. Btw, they got trashed 4-1 by Brazil today. Aren't people there getting tired of Jürgen Klinsmann?

Top-2 in each group qualify for the final round of qualifiers (referred to as 'The Hex')


South American qualifiers start next month.

Africa
also kicks-off.

Oceania's second round however is ages away (May 2016).

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Re: 2018 World Cup qualification

Postby paquebot » Sat Sep 12, 2015 12:24 pm

My understanding is that he has been seen as a fraud in Germany, into pseudo-science, failure at Bayern and with Joachim Löw being the brains behind the German NT when Klinsmann was in charge.

He had a shaky WC 2014 qualification process with the US, did OK at the finals though (the order of fixtures helped a lot). However, the loss to Jamaica at the Gold Cup and his approach to certain issues seem to be -ves.

Perhaps it is unfair to single out the loss to Brazil as the US did well in some other friendlies recently.

I have personally nothing against Klinsmann. Hated his diving as a player when I lived in Germany but in other aspects he seemed like a reasonable chap.
Haven't followed him in the German press for at least a quarter of a century, nor his stint as the US coach all that closely so yu will definitely know more than I do. Are you satisfied with the job he is doing?


I thought your comment came about due to the friendly loss against Brazil -- and Klinsmann apparently got some stick on Twitter for using Bedoya in that match. However, being a friendly, I can understand Klinsmann wanting to try players and line-ups that he wouldn't in an official match. I don't follow the USMNT that closely, but the discussion I see in another forum tends to be filled with more support than criticism, which I think influences my view. The general consensus is that the USA just doesn't have the players to consistently do well against the stronger teams. Granted, losing against Jamaica doesn't fit that line of reasoning, but one interesting comment I saw about that is:

And I am starting to wonder if we don't match up better against European teams than Latin American teams, at least defensively.


I would very much like to believe that this is true. The narrative I would construct is that we are playing more possession-oriented soccer and as a result are more reliant on the officials to police the physical play. When you have the ball more, you get fouled more. Against European teams it isn't as much an issue because either we are playing a similar (less physical) style or because the officials or better. Against CONCACAF, we are possessing the ball better, but the officials...well, we know how that goes.

I think there is probably an element of truth to that narrative. Certainly we have beaten teams who play the ball better than we do by physicality, athleticism and endurance in the past, so we know it can happen. All the same, we still need to be good enough to deal with it. So I think it is partially true but not comprehensively so.
In Yangju, if your cabbage doesn't understand you and you have valid reason for not eating it, then it is ok to go to other vegetables for your kimchi - though strictly nothing from south of Namyangju. -- Martyrs Forever

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Re: 2018 World Cup qualification

Postby nzfooty » Sun Sep 13, 2015 8:02 pm

Interesting. Thanks for throwing more light on how he is viewed.

As for the possession based approach to playing football, NZ was pulverised when it attempted it and my understanding our neighbours from the West Island also suffered with that approach. It requires time before the results come so if Klinsmann is being given time to make the switch, that probably should be encouraged.

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Re: 2018 World Cup qualification

Postby eujin » Sun Sep 13, 2015 11:00 pm

I thought there was zero evidence that the US was attempting a switch to a possession based game at the 2014 World Cup, especially compared to the likes of Japan.

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Re: 2018 World Cup qualification

Postby nzfooty » Sun Sep 13, 2015 11:32 pm

eujin wrote:I thought there was zero evidence that the US was attempting a switch to a possession based game at the 2014 World Cup, especially compared to the likes of Japan.


you may have pinpointed the exact nature of the problem.

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Re: 2018 World Cup qualification

Postby paquebot » Mon Sep 14, 2015 1:33 am

Didn't see any mention of it on Wikipedia, but I thought I'd read somewhere that Klinsmann is not only in charge of the USMNT but also involved in developing the youth set-up in the US. Could be a case of the USSF giving him the time to craft the players he needs... or at least 'steal' dual-nationality players from Europe who fit his plans. Stick a coach who favors a possession- and passing-oriented style with players who are high on athleticism and less on technical ability and there's probably a limit on how far they can go together -- at which point you either need to bring in a coach who understands that particular player mentality or replace the lot of them with players who can better fit into the coach's vision. My understanding is that the US is currently transitioning on that second path. (Again, I don't follow the USMNT that closely though, so I could very well be mistaken.)
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Re: 2018 World Cup qualification

Postby nzfooty » Thu Oct 08, 2015 12:19 am

Africa gets the latest round of WC qualifiers started tonight with this, among the matches:
South Sudan’s first ever World Cup qualifier is a chance to unite a divided country

Overview:
Africa (First Round)

Elsewhere:
South America - Matchday 1

CONCACAF & Oceania - no qualifiers played in October
Though there is this this weekend:
USA vs. Mexico, 2017 Confederations Cup playoff: Match date and venue
With Mexico taking the CONCACAF Gold Cup title in a 3-1 win over Jamaica, they're officially set up for a match against the United States to see who goes to the 2017 Confederations Cup in Russia. The competition pits the World Cup hosts, defending World Cup champions and the winners of the various continental cups against one another in a preview of sorts a year ahead of the world's biggest soccer competition.

Since the Gold Cup is played twice in the four years between Confederations Cup tournaments, that gives North America two potential entrants that have to be narrowed down to one. The United States won the Gold Cup in 2013 and could have won automatic entry to the Confederations Cup with back-to-back wins, but their disappointing fourth-place finish in this year's tournament set up a playoff..


Europe - EURO 2016 qualifiers

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Re: 2018 World Cup qualification

Postby nzfooty » Fri Oct 16, 2015 9:55 pm

nzfooty wrote:
CONCACAF & Oceania - no qualifiers played in October
Though there is this this weekend:

USA vs. Mexico, 2017 Confederations Cup playoff:
With Mexico taking the CONCACAF Gold Cup title in a 3-1 win over Jamaica, they're officially set up for a match against the United States to see who goes to the 2017 Confederations Cup in Russia. The competition pits the World Cup hosts, defending World Cup champions and the winners of the various continental cups against one another in a preview of sorts a year ahead of the world's biggest soccer competition.

Since the Gold Cup is played twice in the four years between Confederations Cup tournaments, that gives North America two potential entrants that have to be narrowed down to one. The United States won the Gold Cup in 2013 and could have won automatic entry to the Confederations Cup with back-to-back wins, but their disappointing fourth-place finish in this year's tournament set up a playoff..


Europe - EURO 2016 qualifiers


The US lost and the debate about Klinsy continues.


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Re: 2018 World Cup qualification

Postby nzfooty » Fri Oct 16, 2015 10:03 pm

World Cup - South America

Code: Select all

 1.Uruguay       2  2  0  0  5- 0  6
 2.Ecuador       2  2  0  0  4- 0  6
 3.Chile         2  2  0  0  6- 3  6
 4.Paraguay      2  1  1  0  1- 0  4
====================================
 5.Brazil        2  1  0  1  3- 3  3
------------------------------------
 6.Colombia      2  1  0  1  2- 3  3
 7.Argentina     2  0  1  1  0- 2  1
 8.Peru          2  0  0  2  3- 6  0
 9.Venezuela     2  0  0  2  1- 4  0
10.Bolivia       2  0  0  2  0- 4  0


Interesting first round with both Argentina and Brazil losing.

Code: Select all

 8-10-15 La Paz          Bolivia       0-2 Uruguay   
 8-10-15 Barranquilla    Colombia      2-0 Peru   
 8-10-15 Puerto Ordaz    Venezuela     0-1 Paraguay   
 8-10-15 Santiago        Chile         2-0 Brazil   
 8-10-15 Buenos Aires    Argentina     0-2 Ecuador 


Tim Vickery's take on the South America's qualifiers.

Code: Select all

13-10-15 Quito           Ecuador       2-0 Bolivia     
13-10-15 Montevideo      Uruguay       3-0 Colombia     
13-10-15 Asunción        Paraguay      0-0 Argentina     
13-10-15 Fortaleza       Brazil        3-1 Venezuela     
13-10-15 Lima            Peru          3-4 Chile

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Re: 2018 World Cup qualification

Postby nzfooty » Sat Oct 24, 2015 9:50 am

Could Russia be deprived of 2018 World Cup over latest FIFA scandal?

Well, probably not but where would it go if they moved? Mexico has my vote. It has steeped in at the last minute before and the World Cups there are always good. :-)

Africa

Shame about how the qualifiers are organised in Africa. Some semi-decent teams have already gone out, having played only two matches.
This can't do much for development of the game in those countries. Understandably people don't want the African equivalents of San Marino
in the group stages, but a good balance has not been struck here.

1st Round:

Somalia 0–6 Niger (0–2, 0–4)
South Sudan 1–5 Mauritania (1–1, 0–4)
Gambia 2–3 Namibia (1–1, 1–2)
São Tomé and Príncipe 1–3 Ethiopia (1–0, 0–3)
Chad 2–2 (a) Sierra Leone (1–0, 1–2)
Comoros 1–1 (a) Lesotho (0–0, 1–1)
Djibouti 1–8 Swaziland (0–6, 1–2)
Eritrea 1–5 Botswana (0–2, 1–3)
Seychelles 0–3 Burundi (0–1, 0–2)
Liberia 4–2 Guinea-Bissau (1–1, 3–1)
Central African Republic 2–5 Madagascar (0–3, 2–2)
Mauritius 2–5 Kenya (2–5, 0–0)
Tanzania 2–1 Malawi (2–0, 0–1)

2nd Round:

(Nov 9 to 17)
Mauritania v Tunisia
Namibia v Guinea
Ethiopia v Congo
Chad v Egypt
Comoros v Ghana
Swaziland v Nigeria
Botswana v Mali
Burundi v DR Congo
Liberia v Ivory Coast
Madagascar v Senegal
Kenya v Cape Verde
Tanzania v Algeria
Sudan v Zambia
Libya v Rwanda
Morocco v Equatorial Guinea
Mozambique v Gabon
Benin v Burkina Faso
Togo v Uganda
Angola v South Africa

3rd Round:

Five groups of four teams. The winners of each group advance to the 2018 FIFA World Cup.

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Re: 2018 World Cup qualification

Postby eujin » Sat Oct 24, 2015 7:49 pm

nzfooty wrote:Shame about how the qualifiers are organised in Africa. Some semi-decent teams have already gone out, having played only two matches.

Which teams are you thinking of? I look through the list and they all look like the type of team that's more likely to pull out of a group stage than qualify for the World Cup. For example, 1994.

I could see the second round being more of a problem. Angola vs South Africa is two former qualifiers.

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Re: 2018 World Cup qualification

Postby eujin » Sat Oct 24, 2015 8:09 pm

nzfooty wrote:Could Russia be deprived of 2018 World Cup over latest FIFA scandal?

Well, probably not but where would it go if they moved? Mexico has my vote. It has steeped in at the last minute before and the World Cups there are always good. :-)

I would give first refusal to the places in order of the voting. Portugal/Spain could host it easily if they wanted to. The World Cup's never been to Portugal. It's already been to Mexico twice.

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Re: 2018 World Cup qualification

Postby nzfooty » Sat Oct 24, 2015 9:33 pm

eujin wrote:
nzfooty wrote:Shame about how the qualifiers are organised in Africa. Some semi-decent teams have already gone out, having played only two matches.

Which teams are you thinking of? I look through the list and they all look like the type of team that's more likely to pull out of a group stage than qualify for the World Cup. For example, 1994.

I could see the second round being more of a problem. Angola vs South Africa is two former qualifiers.


Malawi, Sierra Leone had previously qualified for African Nations Cup. Central African Republic only a few years ago nearly did the same, finishing above Algeria.
(They defeated the Algerians only a few months after their opponents had held England to a 0-0 at the World Cup). Countries like Gambia have squads with professional players and probably deserve more playing time and opportunity to develop.

In any case, before we start splitting hairs, I said semi-decent. The teams need more opportunities to develop and the current World Cup qualification process does not really offer that.

Angola (2006 World Cup) vs South Africa (2010 World Cup) in the second round is a disgrace.

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Re: 2018 World Cup qualification

Postby nzfooty » Sat Oct 24, 2015 9:36 pm

eujin wrote:
nzfooty wrote:Could Russia be deprived of 2018 World Cup over latest FIFA scandal?

Well, probably not but where would it go if they moved? Mexico has my vote. It has steeped in at the last minute before and the World Cups there are always good. :-)

I would give first refusal to the places in order of the voting. Portugal/Spain could host it easily if they wanted to. The World Cup's never been to Portugal. It's already been to Mexico twice.


Portugal/Spain would be more deserving than Mexico. Mexico was a bit of a light-hearted suggestion based on the fact that both WCs they hosted were (in my opinion) great and they also stepped in for Colombia in 1986.


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