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Re: Oceania News

Postby nzfooty » Thu Jul 09, 2015 4:35 pm

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Re: Oceania News

Postby nzfooty » Thu Jul 09, 2015 4:36 pm

Rothesay Saint wrote:Football in Oceania is something I could really get into if only there were more hours in the day,

Somebody somewhere has cocked up pretty badly though inviting Micronesia in to the tournament when they are a few years away from being ready. It has certainly added some media interest to a tournament almost no-one would have known about otherwise though.


Yeah, that is one positive - suddenly people realised there is more to Oceania than just New Zealand. It has also demonstrated the vast differences in standard in the region. NZ plus the Melanesian nations are the strongest (and where football is popular) while the Polynesian nations, with the exception of Tahiti are quite weak (but decent at rugby e.g. Samoa, Tonga). NZ's Maori are also Polynesians.

As for Micronesia, this is what Wikipedia has re demographics:

Code: Select all

The indigenous population of the nation, which is predominantly Micronesian, consists of various ethnolinguistic groups. It has a nearly 100% Pacific Islander and Asian population. Chuukese 48.8%, Pohnpeian 24.2%, Kosraean 6.2%, Yapese 5.2%, Yap outer islands 4.5%, Asian 1.8%, Polynesian 1.5%, other 6.4%, unknown 1.4%. A sizeable minority also have some Japanese ancestry, which is a result of intermarriages between Japanese settlers and Micronesians during the Japanese colonial period.

There is also growing expatriate population of Americans, Australians, Europeans, and residents from China and the Philippines since the 1990s. English has become the common language of the government, and for secondary and tertiary education. Outside of the main capital towns of the four FSM states, the local languages are primarily spoken. Population growth remains high at more than 3% annually, offset somewhat by net emigration. Pohnpei is notable for the prevalence of the extreme form of color blindness known as maskun.   


Note the interesting usage of the term expatriate.

There is hope for the islands though. Guam is strictly speaking a Micronesian nation, and recently have shown great improvement, beating Turkmenistan and India.
(Guam as a territory of the United States is not part of the Federated States of Micronesia).


Rothesay Saint wrote:It's pretty confusing who is qualifying for what though. Tahiti and New Caledonia are part of France so can't have an Olympic team, but are members (or associate members of FIFA, right?)


Yes -- it's actually not too dissimilar to what happens in Europe, with the nations that make up the UK. If Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland and England all managed to qualify for the U21 Euro Championship finals (8 teams take part in the finals) it would get pretty confusing as well as that tournament doubles as the Olympic qualifiers.
Indeed, even with only England qualifying, there have been occasions when a play-off was required (well, I can think of one only, but perhaps there were other occurrences)
See here for more.


Rothesay Saint wrote:By the way, what makes you think New Zealand v Vanuatu might get ugly? I thought Vanuatu were one of the strongest countries in the region, or at least their league is with teams like Amicale.


It will be physical, I think but you are right, it might be a close match. Vanuatu don't have the Pacific Games medal matches as a consolation, as they finished behind Tahiti and Fiji in their group. They will throw the kitchen sink at it.

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Re: Oceania News

Postby nzfooty » Thu Jul 09, 2015 4:46 pm

nzfooty wrote:
eujin wrote:
The funny thing is, I always thought that Auckland was the soccer capital of New Zealand. That was mainly judged by the exploits of Auckland City and Waitakere in the ASB, Champions League and World Cup, but maybe that is a bad selection bias.


In the first two decades of the National Soccer League (for clubs) Christchurch United were the top team in New Zealand. However, since the introduction of the
franchise based league (where all the clubs in particular province/region have been told to cooperate) Auckland have been by far the most successful franchise.
Bigger city and bigger migrant community from which to draw supporters and talent.

As for the South Island, funny you should bring it up because my first ever game for Christchurch United (at u16 level) was against a Darfield based club (Malvern).
http://www.cinch.org.nz/categories/a-z/ ... ntries/560

But they are not very active, in some years didn't even see any of their teams in the Canterbury competitions. So I do agree there isn't much outside Christchurch/Dunedin/Nelson (back in the day Invercargill occasionally fielded a strong team) football is not very visible.


Actually, I will make Wellington my soccer capital of New Zealand - the only professional team (playing in the A-League) is here, large community with roots in southern Europe, high participation rate and as lots of hipsters around who see soccer as "cool".

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Re: Oceania News

Postby eujin » Thu Jul 09, 2015 7:54 pm

nzfooty wrote:Actually, I will make Wellington my soccer capital of New Zealand - the only professional team (playing in the A-League) is here, large community with roots in southern Europe, high participation rate and as lots of hipsters around who see soccer as "cool".

Seems reasonable, especially since Mount Wellington are the most successful club in the Chatham Cup..... :P

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Re: Oceania News

Postby eujin » Thu Jul 09, 2015 7:58 pm

nzfooty wrote:Yes -- it's actually not too dissimilar to what happens in Europe, with the nations that make up the UK. If Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland and England all managed to qualify for the U21 Euro Championship finals (8 teams take part in the finals) it would get pretty confusing as well as that tournament doubles as the Olympic qualifiers.
Indeed, even with only England qualifying, there have been occasions when a play-off was required (well, I can think of one only, but perhaps there were other occurrences)
See here for more.

And this carry on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_UEFA_Women%27s_Olympic_Qualifying_Tournament

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Re: Oceania News

Postby nzfooty » Fri Jul 10, 2015 4:16 am

eujin wrote:
nzfooty wrote:Actually, I will make Wellington my soccer capital of New Zealand - the only professional team (playing in the A-League) is here, large community with roots in southern Europe, high participation rate and as lots of hipsters around who see soccer as "cool".

Seems reasonable, especially since Mount Wellington are the most successful club in the Chatham Cup..... :P


You know very well Mt Wellington is in Auckland. :angry7:
But did you know that the franchise based league has diminished the prestige of the Chatham Cup?
Cashmere Technical of Christchurch have won it two years in a row by the way.

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Re: Oceania News

Postby eujin » Fri Jul 10, 2015 5:03 am

nzfooty wrote:Cashmere Technical of Christchurch have won it two years in a row by the way.

I did see that and was thinking that I've played against all three clubs that make them up, Cashmere, Technical and Woolston. Which is an excellent example of why franchise based teams are a bad idea, the continuous connectivity with the ordinary grassroots game. Actually Woolston were one of my favourite teams to play against as everyone went to their clubhouse afterwards and they bought everyone a round.

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Re: Oceania News

Postby nzfooty » Sun Jul 12, 2015 8:59 am

Olympic Qualifying semi-finals:
Fiji 3–1 Papua New Guinea
New Zealand 2–0 Vanuatu

More on Micronesia:

When 46-0 isn’t a bad result: Why Micronesia must be allowed to join FIFA

Paul Watson is a journalist and former coach of the Pohnpei state football team in the Federated States of Micronesia. Here, he argues that FIFA have not shown enough support for football Micronesia.

Sign the petition to let Micronesia into FIFA: https://goo.gl/aIc9R5


It may have become a standard cliche for a manager to put a positive spin on a heavy defeat, but in Micronesia’s record-breaking 46-0 loss to Vanuatu, the score-line really didn’t tell the story.

I’m not trying to claim that Micronesia had the upper hand in possession, or that 46 times the referee’s assistants missed offside calls, but the action on the field in Papua New Guinea was secondary to a much greater struggle: Micronesia’s battle for recognition from FIFA.


More here.


eujin wrote:
nzfooty wrote:Cashmere Technical of Christchurch have won it two years in a row by the way.

I did see that and was thinking that I've played against all three clubs that make them up, Cashmere, Technical and Woolston. Which is an excellent example of why franchise based teams are a bad idea, the continuous connectivity with the ordinary grassroots game. Actually Woolston were one of my favourite teams to play against as everyone went to their clubhouse afterwards and they bought everyone a round.


Our university team got quite well with Rangers and we would often drink with them.

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Re: Oceania News

Postby nzfooty » Sun Jul 12, 2015 5:10 pm

Oh dear... more amateurish than Micronesia. :smt108

Oly Whites to miss Olympics due to ineligible player

New Zealand Under-23 footballers kicked out of Olympic qualifying tournament

New Zealand's under-23 football team's Olympic hopes have been dashed after they were ruled to have fielded an ineligible player in Deklan Wynne.

Playing at the Olympic qualifying tournament in Papua New Guinea, the Vanuatu Football Federation protested their 2-0 loss to New Zealand in the competition semifinals. Oceania Football upheld the protest, sending the Oly Whites tumbling out of Olympic contention.

The statement said that "in accordance with Article 7 of the Regulations Governing the Application of the Statutes, a member of the New Zealand U-23 squad has been deemed ineligible to represent New Zealand."

Fifa rules state that a player born in another territory must live in his adopted nation for five years after reaching the age of 18 to be deemed eligible.

At 20 years old, Wynne - who was born in South Africa - isn't old enough to sit out the five year stand-down, and it is understood that is the eligibility rule Vanuatu have questioned.

If Wynne is deemed to break that eligibility rule his appearances for the New Zealand U-20 team, and two appearances for the senior All Whites squad, may have also been against Fifa rules.

New Zealand Football confirmed on Sunday afternoon that they plan to challenge the decision of Oceania football...

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Re: Oceania News

Postby eujin » Sun Jul 12, 2015 6:35 pm

I've said it before, but FIFA and friends really need to be vetting players before they play in matches/tournaments, not afterwards on appeal.

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Re: Oceania News

Postby Rothesay Saint » Sun Jul 12, 2015 10:05 pm

nzfooty wrote:Olympic Qualifying semi-finals:
Fiji 3–1 Papua New Guinea
New Zealand 2–0 Vanuatu

More on Micronesia:

When 46-0 isn’t a bad result: Why Micronesia must be allowed to join FIFA

Paul Watson is a journalist and former coach of the Pohnpei state football team in the Federated States of Micronesia. Here, he argues that FIFA have not shown enough support for football Micronesia.

Sign the petition to let Micronesia into FIFA: https://goo.gl/aIc9R5


It may have become a standard cliche for a manager to put a positive spin on a heavy defeat, but in Micronesia’s record-breaking 46-0 loss to Vanuatu, the score-line really didn’t tell the story.

I’m not trying to claim that Micronesia had the upper hand in possession, or that 46 times the referee’s assistants missed offside calls, but the action on the field in Papua New Guinea was secondary to a much greater struggle: Micronesia’s battle for recognition from FIFA.


That's a really interesting story. Thanks for posting it.
Bring back King Cha.

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Re: Oceania News

Postby nzfooty » Mon Jul 13, 2015 9:52 pm

Rothesay Saint wrote:That's a really interesting story. Thanks for posting it.


My pleasure. :)

eujin wrote:I've said it before, but FIFA and friends really need to be vetting players before they play in matches/tournaments, not afterwards on appeal.


Oh dear, NZ mixed up Article 6 with Article 7.

Article 6
Nationality entitling Players to represent more than
one Association

1.
A Player who, under the terms of art. 5, is eligible to represent more than one Association on account of his nationality, may play in an international match for one of these Associations only if, in addition to having the relevant nationality, he fulfils at least one of the following conditions:
a) He was born on the territory of the relevant Association;
b) His biological mother or biological father was born on the territory of the relevant Association;
c) His grandmother or grandfather was born on the territory of the relevant Association;
d) He has lived continuously on the territory of the relevant Association for at least two years.


Article 7

Acquisition of a new nationality

Any Player who refers to art. 5 par. 1 to assume a new nationality and who
has not played international football in accordance with art. 5 par.2 shall be
eligible to play for the new representative team only if he fulfils one of the
following conditions:
a) He was born on the territory of the relevant Association;
b) His biological mother or biological father was born on the territory of the
relevant Association;
c) His grandmother or grandfather was born on the territory of the relevant
Association;
d) He has lived continuously for at least five years after reaching the age of 18
on the territory of the relevant Association


Article 5 prevent the application of Article 6:

Article 5

5
Principle
1.
Any person holding a permanent nationality that is not dependent on
residence in a certain Country is eligible to play for the representative teams of
the Association of that Country.
2.
With the exception of the conditions specified in article
8 below, any Player
who has already participated in a match (either in full or in part) in an Official
Competition of any category or any type of football for one Association
may not play an international match for a representative team of another
Association

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Re: Oceania News

Postby eujin » Mon Jul 13, 2015 11:50 pm

They need to have a rule that once a player has been cleared by the organisers to play in a tournament, there can be no further appeals about that player's eligibility (other than their true identity). That would stop clerical errors, confusion about the rules, different organisations having different rules, unclear issues about suspensions, people waiting until a match is played before announcing what they knew all along or appealing a bad result in the off-chance that they get it overturned, one guy ruining everyone else's hard efforts, confusion about back-dating forfeited matches...

So the upshot is, Fiji will be going to the Olympics, at least until all the lawyers have had their say. Hopefully they end up in Denmark's group.

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Re: Oceania News

Postby nzfooty » Tue Jul 14, 2015 9:54 am

Rothesay Saint wrote:
That's a really interesting story. Thanks for posting it.


Micronesia appear on Fifa's radar after massive Pacific Games defeats

Micronesia – the team that just shipped 114 goals at the Pacific Games – is readying itself to face the likes of Australia, Japan and South Korea, with the Pacific nation poised to follow in the footsteps of nearby island Guam and join the Asian confederation.

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Re: Oceania News

Postby nzfooty » Tue Jul 14, 2015 10:02 am

Fiji fairytale continues with Rio ticket

It will be a maiden Men's Olympic Football Tournament appearance for Fiji​ after a tense and gripping final of Olympic Qualifying in Oceania. The finale, played under the floodlights at Port Moresby's Sir Hubert Murray Stadium, went all the way to penalties after a goalless 120 minutes with Jale Dreloa, captain of Fiji's recent historic FIFA U-20 World Cup campaign, stepping up to convert the crucial spot kick.


eujin wrote:They need to have a rule that once a player has been cleared by the organisers to play in a tournament, there can be no further appeals about that player's eligibility (other than their true identity). That would stop clerical errors, confusion about the rules, different organisations having different rules, unclear issues about suspensions, people waiting until a match is played before announcing what they knew all along or appealing a bad result in the off-chance that they get it overturned, one guy ruining everyone else's hard efforts, confusion about back-dating forfeited matches...

So the upshot is, Fiji will be going to the Olympics, at least until all the lawyers have had their say. Hopefully they end up in Denmark's group.


Fiji upset Honduras 3-0 at the u20 World Cup. Don't underestimate them. :wink:

I agree with your approach, it does make sense.

This is indeed what New Zealand are claiming:


New Zealand Football launch appeal over Olympic qualifying expulsion

Kiwis thrown out of qualifying tournament final for fielding ineligible player
New Zealand claim they liaised with OFC and Pacific Games on eligibility


New Zealand Football have launched an appeal over the decision to expel them from the Oceania Football Confederation’s Olympic qualifying final for fielding an ineligible player.

New Zealand’s Under-23 side were expelled just hours before Sunday’s final against Fiji, who went on to beat Vanuatu to advance as Oceania’s representative at next year’s Rio Games.

After losing 2-0 to New Zealand in the semi-finals, Vanuatu lodged a protest against the eligibility of South Africa-born defender Deklan Wynne with the OFC Disciplinary Committee. The committee deemed Wynne, who moved to New Zealand as a child with his family, was ineligible and awarded the game to Vanuatu 2-0 instead.

NZF reacted angrily to the decision and were aghast the OFC had not told them of the outcome until just hours before the final. They also said they had been led to believe that Fifa would be making a determination on the outcome of Vanuatu’s appeal.

NZF chief executive Andy Martin said in a statement on Monday their lawyers were preparing an appeal to the OFC. The statement added that NZF had liaised with the OFC and the organisers of the Pacific Games, which was hosting the Olympic qualifying tournament, on the eligibility of all members of its squad.

“New Zealand Football has acted in good faith at all times and we would have expected any issues on player eligibility to have been raised in advance, through the process we were given, so that they could have been dealt with properly in a timely fashion,” Martin said.

Wynne was deemed ineligible under Article 7 of Fifa’s statutes which relate to a player acquiring a new nationality. Under the article, the player, a parent or grandparent must have been born in the country they wish to represent.

If they are ineligible under the first three criteria, they can qualify if they have lived in the country for five years continuously since the age of 18, making the 20-year-old Wynne too young to qualify under that clause.


But as Chris Rattue writes:

NZF CEO Andy Martin maintained the Pacific Games Council had confirmed the New Zealand players' eligibility before the tournament. A FIFA/Oceania stamp of approval, definitely. One from the Olympic Games committee, maybe. But the Pacific Games Council, whoever the hell they are? Crazy.

It makes me wonder whether NZF was trying to pull a fast one, sneaking a player into the Olympics believing no one would check. NZF statements have waffled on about appealing the process used to throw the Oly Whites out. But it has not pointed to one single eligibility clause in its defence.


More on the subject:

New Zealand thrown out of Olympic qualifying after fielding ineligible player (The Guardian)


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