Oceania News

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Re: Oceania News

Postby nzfooty » Sun Jul 05, 2015 8:47 am

eujin wrote:
nzfooty wrote:Though as Tahiti are the current Oceania champions (and New Caledonia were able to defeat NZ in the semis before losing to Tahiti) you could make the argument that these nations are sufficiently competitive.

Given the tropical heat, a bumpy pitch and a partisan crowd then you could argue that most of those sides would have a chance against New Zealand on their day. Didn't Fiji beat them sometime recently too?


Yes, 2-0 in 2008
, in a World Cup qualifier. However, by that stage New Zealand were already guaranteed a spot in the intercontinental play-off (where they defeated Bahrain to qualify for South Africa).
A far more damaging loss occurred in the qualifiers for the 2006 World Cup. It was quite bizarre as well. New Zealand lost 4-2 to Vanuatu. Vanuatu despite that win finished bottom in the six team group (losing to Solomon Islands, Tahiti, Fiji and Australia). With top-2 teams going through to the next stage, New Zealand still had a chance to qualify though.

The last match of the group stage was Australia v Solomon Islands. The standings before the match:

Australia 4 +18 12
New Zealand 5 +12 9
****
Solomon Islands 4 +3 9
Fiji 5 −7 4
Tahiti 5 −22 4
Vanuatu 5 −4 3

Some shock to see the game ended 2-2 and NZ had to wave goodbye to that World Cup

Australia 5 +18 13
Solomon Islands 5 +3 10

*****
New Zealand 5 +12 9
Fiji 5 −7 4
Tahiti 5 −22 4
Vanuatu 5 −4 3

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Re: Oceania News

Postby nzfooty » Sun Jul 05, 2015 9:13 am

changwonmatty wrote:I am in New Caledonia at the moment and football is everywhere. Lots of kids in the park and they are all playing it so the French influence is large...heaps of Paris Saint-Germain jerseys around as well.


I saw New Zealand play New Caledonia at the Forsyth Barr Stadium, Dunedin in 2013, as part of the 2014 World Cup qualifiers. New Caledonia were arguably the better team and it took an injury minute goal from Tommy Smith to win the match for New Zealand 2-1. People around me were predicting a 7-0 or 8-0 win so it was quite a shock for many of them.
(To be fair for many in Dunedin it was their first international match).

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Re: Oceania News

Postby changwonmatty » Sun Jul 05, 2015 11:00 am

nzfooty wrote:
changwonmatty wrote:I am in New Caledonia at the moment and football is everywhere. Lots of kids in the park and they are all playing it so the French influence is large...heaps of Paris Saint-Germain jerseys around as well.


I saw New Zealand play New Caledonia at the Forsyth Barr Stadium, Dunedin in 2013, as part of the 2014 World Cup qualifiers. New Caledonia were arguably the better team and it took an injury minute goal from Tommy Smith to win the match for New Zealand 2-1. People around me were predicting a 7-0 or 8-0 win so it was quite a shock for many of them.
(To be fair for many in Dunedin it was their first international match).

Other than the old French guys playing petanque it is the ONLY sport I have seen being played by all races...it is a safe bet that even with New Caledonia's small population there are more people playing football here than in New Zealand (rugby, rugby, rugby.....I have hardly seen any football being played in kiwiland outside of the pro league).
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Re: Oceania News

Postby nzfooty » Sun Jul 05, 2015 2:32 pm

Perhaps it is a North Shore thing where you live but NZ-wide football does quite well in terms of participation. The figures I found for 2007 are 128K registered with clubs with total participation (schools, social clubs, ethnic tournaments) being 227K. It's the most popular participation sport for 5 to 17 yr old males. Maybe eujin could contribute here as he also lived in Christchurch, but my memory of that town is that on a Saturday mornings the parks (and there are many in Christchurch) were packed with parents bringing their kids to football matches.
Wellington also has a decent football scene.
However, as I said with all those white South Africans and Koreans where you live you may not get much of a football fervour ;) And to be fair, the participation rate falls greatly for those 18+ yrs no matter where you live in NZ.
Overall no argument though: rugby is the king, with football far far behind.

anyway the latest from PNG:
Micronesia 0-36 Fiji
We might be in record territory now. Their last match is against Vanuatu who might do the same to them. 100 goals in 3 pool matches?

edit:
There seems to be some confusion regarding the total number of goals.

Kevin Darling ‏@darlingkevin 2h2 hours ago Papua New Guinea

Just watched history being made: Fiji 38-0 Micronesia. They replaced this goalkeeper with a midfielder at HT at 21-0.

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Re: Oceania News

Postby changwonmatty » Sun Jul 05, 2015 4:41 pm

nzfooty wrote:Perhaps it is a North Shore thing where you live but NZ-wide football does quite well in terms of participation. However, as I said with all those white South Africans and Koreans where you live you may not get much of a football fervour ;)

I moved from the North Shore into the CBD (I live directly across the road from Star City casino) last January. Time commuting each day, even to Takapuna was fooking ridiculous. Auckland really needs to sort out their road infrastructure......only one bridge from South to North is craziness for how big the city is now and it is only getting bigger which means the traffic will get worse. The straw broke when it took two hours to drive from the CBD to Albany...about 15 kilometres. Just sold the car and moved into the city, much easier and more convinient this way...

Still heaps of Koreans and Chinese here in the city though...much more than white residents of the CBD. I dont miss Korea because half of the backstreets of the CBD is Koreatown
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Re: Oceania News

Postby nzfooty » Tue Jul 07, 2015 2:18 pm

changwonmatty wrote:
nzfooty wrote:Perhaps it is a North Shore thing where you live but NZ-wide football does quite well in terms of participation. However, as I said with all those white South Africans and Koreans where you live you may not get much of a football fervour ;)

I moved from the North Shore into the CBD (I live directly across the road from Star City casino) last January. Time commuting each day, even to Takapuna was fooking ridiculous. Auckland really needs to sort out their road infrastructure......only one bridge from South to North is craziness for how big the city is now and it is only getting bigger which means the traffic will get worse. The straw broke when it took two hours to drive from the CBD to Albany...about 15 kilometres. Just sold the car and moved into the city, much easier and more convinient this way...

Still heaps of Koreans and Chinese here in the city though...much more than white residents of the CBD. I dont miss Korea because half of the backstreets of the CBD is Koreatown


Yeah, this is why I enjoyed living in Auckland (plus it was warmer than Christchurch) when I was doing my masters. In a way it slightly diminished the excitement of going back to Asia, because, as you point out, you already have one foot in the Far East. I was in the Chinese part as you may recall, in the eastern suburbs.
But yeah, both in terms of transportation and house prices the city is mental, and not in a good way. The crash that is coming is going to be ugly for a lot of people...

Anyway, here is one thing that is almost, but not quite as ridiculous:

Final result: Vanuatu 46-0 Micronesia.
Micronesia conceded 114 in 3 pool matches. Absolutely :smt095

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Re: Oceania News

Postby eujin » Tue Jul 07, 2015 4:30 pm

nzfooty wrote:Final result: Vanuatu 46-0 Micronesia.
Micronesia conceded 114 in 3 pool matches. Absolutely :smt095

That's terrible. Having been around a lot of youth football I know it's not easy to lose a match 46-0, even if you're completely outclassed. If they're fielding a bunch of 15 year-olds in a u23 tournament (like American Samoa were) then the organisers should be having very strong words with them. They've made a mockery of yet another OFC competition. It would've been better having Australia send a team than Micronesia, or no team at all for that matter.

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Re: Oceania News

Postby Rothesay Saint » Tue Jul 07, 2015 4:40 pm

There was a bit on the BBC about it after the Fiji game suggesting that some of the players hadn't started playing until about 18 months ago, and that a lot of the chances came because no-one could hit a goal kick past the half way line.

I guess they have to start somewhere, but maybe they should have given it a couple more years.
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Re: Oceania News

Postby changwonmatty » Wed Jul 08, 2015 9:20 am

Rothesay Saint wrote:There was a bit on the BBC about it after the Fiji game suggesting that some of the players hadn't started playing until about 18 months ago, and that a lot of the chances came because no-one could hit a goal kick past the half way line.


I read an article saying it was the first time they had ever played on a full sized field or even been off their island. Still 46-0 seems beyond ludicrous. Basically it is score run the ball to the halfway and score again within 20-30 seconds..... how is it possible?
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Re: Oceania News

Postby nzfooty » Wed Jul 08, 2015 4:35 pm

The amusing thing is that these 46 goals was still not enough to put Vanuatu through to the Pacific Games medal matches.
They managed to overtake Fiji on goal difference but the subsequent match Fiji and Tahiti played out 0-0 that suited both
participants.
(Vanuatu still qualified for the matches for the Olympic spot - they face NZ in a match that could get ugly)

Contrast this with the other group where the hosts Papua NG only scored 2 goals and finished 3rd but despite that
still managed to qualify for *both* the Pacific Games medal matches and the Olympic qualifiers.

Group A

Code: Select all

Micronesia    0–30     Tahiti
Fiji     1–1     Vanuatu

Micronesia    0–38     Fiji
Tahiti     2–1     Vanuatu

Vanuatu     46–0    Micronesia
Tahiti     0–0     Fiji

1. Tahiti     3  2  1  0  32-  1  7 (PG)
2. Fiji       3  1  2  0  39-  1  5 (PG, Oly)
3. Vanuatu    3  1  1  1  48-  3  4 (Oly)
4. Micronesia 3  0  0  3   0-114  0



Group B

Code: Select all

New Zealand     2–0     Solomon Islands
Papua New Guinea     0–1     New Caledonia

New Caledonia     1–0     Solomon Islands
Papua New Guinea     0–1     New Zealand

Solomon Islands     1–2     Papua New Guinea
New Caledonia     0–5     New Zealand

1. New Zealand   3  3  0  0  8- 0   9 (Oly)
2. New Caledonia 3  2  0  1  2- 5   6 (PG)
3. Papua NG      3  1  0  2  2- 3   3 (PG, Oly)
4. Solomon Isl   3  0  0  3  1- 5   0 



Olympic Qualifying
(for 1 place at the Olympics)

10 July
Fiji v Papua New Guinea
New Zealand v Vanuatu
12 July
Fiji/PNG v NZ/Vanuatu - winner qualifies for the Olympics

Pacific Games
(New Zealand are not eligible as they are not a Pacific Games Council member)
15 July
Tahiti v Papua New Guinea
New Caledonia v Fiji

Bronze medal match
17 July

Gold medal match
17 July

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Re: Oceania News

Postby nzfooty » Wed Jul 08, 2015 5:06 pm

changwonmatty wrote:
Rothesay Saint wrote:There was a bit on the BBC about it after the Fiji game suggesting that some of the players hadn't started playing until about 18 months ago, and that a lot of the chances came because no-one could hit a goal kick past the half way line.


I read an article saying it was the first time they had ever played on a full sized field or even been off their island. Still 46-0 seems beyond ludicrous. Basically it is score run the ball to the halfway and score again within 20-30 seconds..... how is it possible?


Not sure it will completely answer your question but there is some (very brief) footage of the match on the Guardian website. It looks like the Micronesia players have
no clue what to do. They look much smaller too.
Fiji hammer Micronesia 38-0 in 'record international win' at Pacific Games

Actually, the video in the piece below is even more revealing, and the last goal in it is a clear demonstration of the inability to play the ball far up-field when taking goal kicks that Rothesay Saint talked about:
Micronesia suffer another humiliating defeat after 46-0 loss to Vanuatu

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Re: Oceania News

Postby Rothesay Saint » Wed Jul 08, 2015 8:22 pm

Football in Oceania is something I could really get into if only there were more hours in the day,

Somebody somewhere has cocked up pretty badly though inviting Micronesia in to the tournament when they are a few years away from being ready. It has certainly added some media interest to a tournament almost no-one would have known about otherwise though.

It's pretty confusing who is qualifying for what though. Tahiti and New Caledonia are part of France so can't have an Olympic team, but are members (or associate members of FIFA, right?)

By the way, what makes you think New Zealand v Vanuatu might get ugly? I thought Vanuatu were one of the strongest countries in the region, or at least their league is with teams like Amicale.
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Re: Oceania News

Postby eujin » Thu Jul 09, 2015 2:18 am

nzfooty wrote:Maybe eujin could contribute here as he also lived in Christchurch

There were certainly a lot of kids playing in Christchurch, possibly even the most popular sport in that age group. Even amongst the senior men's teams, if you include all the Saturday and Sunday leagues, there must have been over 100 organised teams playing in the city. Outside of Christchurch and Dunedin (where most of the people live), there wasn't much in the South Island though. Nelson had a couple of decent sides, but we once played a friendly against supposedly the team in Greymouth and it wasn't a pretty sight. I wonder if places like Darfield or Reefton even have soccer pitches marked out, although I bet they have decent rugby teams.

The funny thing is, I always thought that Auckland was the soccer capital of New Zealand. That was mainly judged by the exploits of Auckland City and Waitakere in the ASB, Champions League and World Cup, but maybe that is a bad selection bias.

I've seen quite a bit of football around the Pacific. There was definitely a lot of interest in New Caledonia, people were even watching New Caledonian teams on TV. But the population of New Caledonia is about the same as the population of Christchurch, so I'd be surprised if there were more people playing there than in NZ.

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Re: Oceania News

Postby nzfooty » Thu Jul 09, 2015 12:58 pm

eujin wrote:
The funny thing is, I always thought that Auckland was the soccer capital of New Zealand. That was mainly judged by the exploits of Auckland City and Waitakere in the ASB, Champions League and World Cup, but maybe that is a bad selection bias.


In the first two decades of the National Soccer League (for clubs) Christchurch United were the top team in New Zealand. However, since the introduction of the
franchise based league (where all the clubs in particular province/region have been told to cooperate) Auckland have been by far the most successful franchise.
Bigger city and bigger migrant community from which to draw supporters and talent.

As for the South Island, funny you should bring it up because my first ever game for Christchurch United (at u16 level) was against a Darfield based club (Malvern).
http://www.cinch.org.nz/categories/a-z/ ... ntries/560

But they are not very active, in some years didn't even see any of their teams in the Canterbury competitions. So I do agree there isn't much outside Christchurch/Dunedin/Nelson (back in the day Invercargill occasionally fielded a strong team) football is not very visible.

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Re: Oceania News

Postby nzfooty » Thu Jul 09, 2015 4:33 pm

Rothesay Saint wrote:Football in Oceania is something I could really get into if only there were more hours in the day,

Somebody somewhere has cocked up pretty badly though inviting Micronesia in to the tournament when they are a few years away from being ready. It has certainly added some media interest to a tournament almost no-one would have known about otherwise though.


Yeah, that is one positive - suddenly people realised there is more to Oceania than just New Zealand. It has also demonstrated the vast differences in standard in the region. NZ plus the Melanesian nations are the strongest (and where football is popular) while the Polynesian nations, with the exception of Tahiti are quite weak (but decent at rugby e.g. Samoa, Tonga). NZ's Maori are also Polynesians.

As for Micronesia, this is what Wikipedia has re demographics:

Code: Select all

The indigenous population of the nation, which is predominantly Micronesian, consists of various ethnolinguistic groups. It has a nearly 100% Pacific Islander and Asian population. Chuukese 48.8%, Pohnpeian 24.2%, Kosraean 6.2%, Yapese 5.2%, Yap outer islands 4.5%, Asian 1.8%, Polynesian 1.5%, other 6.4%, unknown 1.4%. A sizeable minority also have some Japanese ancestry, which is a result of intermarriages between Japanese settlers and Micronesians during the Japanese colonial period.

There is also growing expatriate population of Americans, Australians, Europeans, and residents from China and the Philippines since the 1990s. English has become the common language of the government, and for secondary and tertiary education. Outside of the main capital towns of the four FSM states, the local languages are primarily spoken. Population growth remains high at more than 3% annually, offset somewhat by net emigration. Pohnpei is notable for the prevalence of the extreme form of color blindness known as maskun.   


Note the interesting usage of the term expatriate.

There is hope for the islands though. Guam is strictly speaking a Micronesian nation, and recently have shown great improvement, beating Turkmenistan and India.
(Guam as a territory of the United States is not part of the Federated States of Micronesia).


Rothesay Saint wrote:It's pretty confusing who is qualifying for what though. Tahiti and New Caledonia are part of France so can't have an Olympic team, but are members (or associate members of FIFA, right?)


Yes -- it's actually not too dissimilar to what happens in Europe, with the nations that make up the UK. If Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland and England all managed to qualify for the U21 Euro Championship finals (8 teams take part in the finals) it would get pretty confusing as well as that tournament doubles as the Olympic qualifiers.
Indeed, even with only England qualifying, there have been occasions when a play-off was required (well, I can think of one only, but perhaps there were other occurrences)
See here for more.


Rothesay Saint wrote:By the way, what makes you think New Zealand v Vanuatu might get ugly? I thought Vanuatu were one of the strongest countries in the region, or at least their league is with teams like Amicale.


It will be physical, I think but you are right, it might be a close match. Vanuatu don't have the Pacific Games medal matches as a consolation, as they finished behind Tahiti and Fiji in their group. They will throw the kitchen sink at it.


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