SPL 2011-2012

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Holyjoe
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Re: SPL 2011-2012

Postby Holyjoe » Fri May 18, 2012 6:06 pm

Was at the Scottish Second Division playoff final first leg the other night in Dumbarton and an enjoyable wee game it was too. First time I've been to a playoff game in Scotland and it certainly seems to be pulling in the punters. We criticise the K-League clubs a lot for over-reporting their actual match attendances however for some reason (tax-related? tut tut) Dumbarton quite clearly underreported theirs by a considerable margin. The capacity of their single stand stadium is 2,050 and that was pretty much full when I arrived at 7:20 for the 7:45 kick-off. By about ten minutes before kick-off they were apparently turning folk away because the ground was full yet the official attendance was 1,746.

There was a lot of rather amusing anti-Clydebank chanting throughout the match aimed at Airdrie ("are you Clydebank in disguise?" etc :finger ) and I was happy to see Dumbarton win. Hell, even an ex-Aberdeen striker got on the scoresheet, something he rarely did whilst at Pittodrie. Hopefully they do the business in the second leg on Sunday.

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Re: SPL 2011-2012

Postby Holyjoe » Thu May 24, 2012 5:43 pm

Didn't see the documentary on the BBC last night about Rangers but by all accounts it's ripped Rangers, David Murray and administrators Duff & Phelps to shreds.

This BBC feature on the alleged illegal side payments details the £47m in payments made to players but not declared to the SFA and SPL from 2001-2010 - the one tenuous link to Korean football comes with Dick Advocaat getting £1.5m from the EBT scheme.. Dragan Mladenovic must have done something wrong during his time at Rangers as he didn't get anything! Over and above the club being in administration and owing vast sums they can't afford to the tax man, this information appears to confirm the suspicion they've broken player registration rules for a nine year period and could (should?) see them default any and all games involving said players by a 3-0 margin. Cue mass title stripping down Ibrox way :)

The documentary is on the BBC iplayer so I'll catch up with it at some point - it's on Youtube too for non-UK folk who are interested: Part 1 here, Part 2 here.

The SFA & SPL wrote to all Scottish football clubs asking whether any of them had used EBT schemes in the past, and out of them all just Celtic were the only one to have confirmed the use of one EBT scheme, a payment of £765,000 to Juninho in April 2005 which wasn't declared to the football authorities. Not quite on the same scale as Rangers' wrongdoing, and the timing of it is interesting as he left the club in April 2005 and apparently they retrospectively paid the tax on it in 2008, but I fully approve of the title of this blog on the subject by a Scottish lawyer: What If Celtic Accept Wrong-doing re Juninho’s EBT? Aberdeen SPL Winners 2005?

Yes, please.

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Re: SPL 2011-2012

Postby nzfooty » Thu May 24, 2012 6:24 pm

Holyjoe wrote:
The documentary is on the BBC iplayer so I'll catch up with it at some point - it's on Youtube too for non-UK folk who are interested: Part 1 here, Part 2 here.


Thanks for pointing this out. Have not really kept up with saga but looking forward to watching it.

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Re: SPL 2011-2012

Postby SteveW » Thu May 24, 2012 9:14 pm

Thought the documentary was a great piece of entertainment with revelations like:

1. David Murray bought Rangers because he tried and failed to get fired into Joanna Lumley at a London Metals Conference
2. Rangers received their tax advice from a pipe-smoking pornographer
3. Craig Whyte pretended to be backed by Prince Albert of Monaco to convince people of his wherewithall
4. The administrators brought in because Rangers ran out of money were the same people who set up the deal that meant Rangers ran out of money
5. Graeme Souness got paid £30k from Rangers 10 years after he left the club, mysteriously around the time he also signed Tugay from them
6. Kevin Muscat got A MILLION QUID from an EBT for his 'contribution' to Rangers
7. There are very few voice actors in Scotland who can do a decent French accent
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Re: SPL 2011-2012

Postby Cyclops » Thu May 24, 2012 9:23 pm

Thanks for the links.

Re Dumbarton, do the clubs split the gate receipts in play-off games? They do in the English FA Cup so under-reporting of attendances is rife in the non-league game!

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Re: SPL 2011-2012

Postby eujin » Fri May 25, 2012 12:45 am

SteveW wrote:1. David Murray bought Rangers because he tried and failed to get fired into Joanna Lumley at a London Metals Conference

Now I have to watch it to find out what the hell that means.

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Re: SPL 2011-2012

Postby nzfooty » Fri May 25, 2012 12:59 am

nzfooty wrote:
Holyjoe wrote:
The documentary is on the BBC iplayer so I'll catch up with it at some point - it's on Youtube too for non-UK folk who are interested: Part 1 here, Part 2 here.


Thanks for pointing this out. Have not really kept up with saga but looking forward to watching it.


HJ, do you have the link to part 3?

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Re: SPL 2011-2012

Postby Cyclops » Fri May 25, 2012 2:09 am

Do a google search for the part 1 URL and you can find links to all 4.

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Re: SPL 2011-2012

Postby nzfooty » Fri May 25, 2012 7:24 am

Cyclops wrote:Do a google search for the part 1 URL and you can find links to all 4.

Thanks Cyclops. To team work! :thumbleft:

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Re: SPL 2011-2012

Postby Holyjoe » Fri May 25, 2012 4:47 pm

Apologies chaps, only noticed the two links posted on an Aberdeen forum so assumed that was the whole show.

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Re: SPL 2011-2012

Postby nzfooty » Fri May 25, 2012 8:53 pm

Holyjoe wrote:Apologies chaps, only noticed the two links posted on an Aberdeen forum so assumed that was the whole show.


No worries HJ, followed Cyclops' suggestion and found the rest: Part 3,
Part 4

Holyjoe wrote:
The documentary is on the BBC iplayer so I'll catch up with it at some point - it's on Youtube too for non-UK folk who are interested: Part 1 here, Part 2 here.

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Re: SPL 2011-2012

Postby Rothesay Saint » Mon May 28, 2012 12:56 pm

Holyjoe wrote:Didn't see the documentary on the BBC last night about Rangers but by all accounts it's ripped Rangers, David Murray and administrators Duff & Phelps to shreds.

This BBC feature on the alleged illegal side payments details the £47m in payments made to players but not declared to the SFA and SPL from 2001-2010 - the one tenuous link to Korean football comes with Dick Advocaat getting £1.5m from the EBT scheme.. Dragan Mladenovic must have done something wrong during his time at Rangers as he didn't get anything! Over and above the club being in administration and owing vast sums they can't afford to the tax man, this information appears to confirm the suspicion they've broken player registration rules for a nine year period and could (should?) see them default any and all games involving said players by a 3-0 margin. Cue mass title stripping down Ibrox way :)

The documentary is on the BBC iplayer so I'll catch up with it at some point - it's on Youtube too for non-UK folk who are interested: Part 1 here, Part 2 here.

The SFA & SPL wrote to all Scottish football clubs asking whether any of them had used EBT schemes in the past, and out of them all just Celtic were the only one to have confirmed the use of one EBT scheme, a payment of £765,000 to Juninho in April 2005 which wasn't declared to the football authorities. Not quite on the same scale as Rangers' wrongdoing, and the timing of it is interesting as he left the club in April 2005 and apparently they retrospectively paid the tax on it in 2008, but I fully approve of the title of this blog on the subject by a Scottish lawyer: What If Celtic Accept Wrong-doing re Juninho’s EBT? Aberdeen SPL Winners 2005?

Yes, please.


Not really given much thought to Rangers being stripped of league titles they won during 2001-10 if they are found guilty of not having properly registered players. But the cup wins would be interesting. Rangers won the Scottish cup four times during that period, beating Celtic, Dundee, Falkirk and Queen of the South who would make an interesting group of winners (that QoTS v Aberdeen semi final in 2008 was worthy of being the final anyhow. :smt117 )

They also won the league cup five times - against Ayr United, Celtic, Motherwell, Dundee United and St. Mirren.

Thats an awful lot of open top bus parades going to be held around the country this summer. :)
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Re: SPL 2011-2012

Postby sjc_three » Mon May 28, 2012 5:29 pm

nzfooty wrote:
Cyclops wrote:Do a google search for the part 1 URL and you can find links to all 4.

Thanks Cyclops. To team work! :thumbleft:

The whole thing is uploaded here.

Shocking stuff indeed.

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Re: SPL 2011-2012

Postby Holyjoe » Mon May 28, 2012 7:26 pm

Not sure if I'd rather have the cups retrospectively awarded to the runners-up - wasn't just the finalists they cheated it was the teams they beat in all the earlier rounds too, who's to say one of them wouldn't have gone on to win the cup? I'm damned if Queen of the South are going to be credited with a Scottish Cup win that year :smt093

I think I would rather the history books said "not awarded, honour rescinded from Rangers for being a shower of vile cheating bastards". I think I'll make the necessary changes to my copy of the Wee Red Book next season...

Billy Dodds appears to have landed Rangers right in it, having previously claimed live on BBC Scotland that he never had an EBT during his time with Rangers, yesterday he explained exactly how his EBT worked in the Herald:

The full story is that David Murray came to me and asked if I would receive a payment that was due to me, after tax, through the EBT trust. And I said that I would. It was money that was owing to me when I had six months left on my contract and I moved to Dundee United. After the tax was deducted, that money was put in the trust fund.


Six months' contractual wages paid into a discretionary loan EBT? Hector the Tax man will be happy to hear that.

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Re: SPL 2011-2012

Postby SteveW » Tue May 29, 2012 11:55 pm

Rangers CVA proposal here: http://www.rangers.c...5~177097,00.pdf

Interesting that Green isn't even offering to buy the club for £8.5m but is offering a loan to pay off the creditors which is all repayable+interest in 2020.

Either that or he buys the assets for £5.5m which has to be under market value surely?
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