How the Bundesliga puts the Premier League to shame

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How the Bundesliga puts the Premier League to shame

Postby sjc_three » Mon Apr 12, 2010 12:22 pm

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog ... ier-league

Great article and shows how it can be (should be) done.

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Re: How the Bundesliga puts the Premier League to shame

Postby nzfooty » Mon Apr 12, 2010 1:52 pm

German model highlights Man Utd dilemma

A similar article that appeared on the BBC website about two weeks ago...

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Re: How the Bundesliga puts the Premier League to shame

Postby eujin » Tue Apr 13, 2010 1:32 am

This sounds like a thread I have to comment on.

"In the last three years of the Bundesliga we have three different cup winners and three different champions," Seifert says. "Sepp Herberger, the coach of the West German team that won the 1954 World Cup, said: 'You know why people go to the stadium? Because they don't know how it ends.'"


Mustoe's elephant in the room. Man United have won 11 out of 17 Premier Leagues. Bayern have only won 9 out of 18 Bundesligas since reunification - so at least it isn't quite more than all the rest put together. Guess who's going to win this year.

In fact, even if I did want to go to the last game of the season, which is in Berlin, to see if Bayern would suprisingly win it, I would have had to book my ticket two months before the game because tickets were already sold out in the middle of March for a game in May. Hertha Berlin hardly fill half of their stadium all year but when Bayern come a-visiting all tickets are gone two months in advance. I was hoping to take some of my "I'd like to go to a football game once in my life" or "I only watch Champions League and only on TV" friends to a quality game this season but that's not going to be possible. I'm beginning to think that some clubs are so big and dominant they need to to be broken up or some kind of NFL parity rules need to be introduced.

It's true that tickets are cheaper in Germany than they are in England. But they're about the same as they are in Italy's Serie A and still more expensive than in Korea. At Hertha Berlin they have three categories of matches. Against weaker teams like Cha Du-ri's Freiburg you can get in for 10 euros but against popular teams like Edu's Schalke it will cost at least 20 euros. The "free rail passes" aren't free, the price is added to the ticket, so if you walk or bike to the stadium you still pay for the "free rail pass" and if you pick up the ticket at the stadium you still need to get a train ticket to the stadium even though you end up paying for a "free rail pass" anyway. It costs 4 euros to have the tickets mailed in advance which is more than the train ticket would be.

You can buy beer inside the stadium and drink it in your seat, sometimes they even bring the beer round to your seat. You need to pay about 33% of the price as a deposit on the plastic cup they give you which you get back if you take the cup back to them. I also think it's allowed to smoke in the seats.

The relationship with TV is a bit strange. Virtually every week has a game on Friday which sucks for away fans and the Bundesliga 2nd Division has games on Mondays too. The date of any fixture is not decided until several weeks beforehand to give TV the chance to cherry-pick the best schedule for the Pay-TV audience. On my ticket for the Bayer Leverkusen-Hertha Berlin match it just says "Please check the daily press for the date and time". Booking transport and stuff in advance can be a bit tricky.

At the Olympic Stadium in Berlin they have ridiculously long queues to get in. It has taken me up to 20 minutes to get in even after the match has started because they have to barcode check every ticket and being German they take the body and bag searching very seriously. They simply don't have enough turnstiles to get every one in unless people go through an hour before kick-off, which suits them because then you have to buy their beer and food at the prices they feel fit to charge. They also have guys on every entrance to the actual seating area checking tickets, so if you pop out to buy a drink you need to remember your ticket stub even if you're in the cheapest section because they won't let you back in without it. There are also a good number of seats in the Olympic Stadium that are right behind the posts holding the roof up, what old Wembley Stadium would have called a "severely restricted view" but at Hertha you don't get a discount for not being able to see anything.

Most of the stadiums are top notch, not that I'll ever get to most of them without serious planning ahead. Union Berlin's stadium is a gem (they have terraces), although the pitch is a bit of a sandpit. But the Adolf Hitler Memorial Stadium where Hertha play is an all-seater stinking pile of pooh. And Hertha, who will almost certainly go down this year, have a significant pile of debt built up by general manager Dieter Hoeness when he was trying to get them into the Champions League. He's now gone on to Wolfsburg where presumably he can do less damage given that they are owned and bankrolled by the Volkswagen chaebol. It's also worth pointing out that clubs lower down the ladder do disappear occassionally. Instead of going into administration they "decide it's not worth applying for a licence next year". This has been threatening to happen to Tennis Borussia Berlin this year and there are a couple of other teams in the third and fourth divisions in a similar situation. The Bundesliga clubs have their second or youth teams playing in the third division and below and the attendances for these games are awful. Most of the clubs with their first team down there would like to see them kicked out.

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Re: How the Bundesliga puts the Premier League to shame

Postby sjc_three » Sat May 29, 2010 12:22 pm

All not quite as rosy in the Bundesliga garden as perhaps indicated:
Arminia Bielefeld stand on brink of bankruptcy

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Re: How the Bundesliga puts the Premier League to shame

Postby nzfooty » Sat May 29, 2010 12:41 pm

Yes, but while unfortunate it's still worth pointing out that the sums mentioned there are about 1/10 of what Portsmouth owes.

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Re: How the Bundesliga puts the Premier League to shame

Postby eujin » Wed Jun 02, 2010 6:52 pm

Rot-Weiss Essen are another team that needs to find 2.5 million Euros before Friday or they're out too. They're the largest team in Essen which is Germany's 8th largest city. Tennis Borussia Berlin (who played in the Bundesliga in the 1970's and made the cup semi-final in 1994) were declared insolvent last week.

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Re: How the Bundesliga puts the Premier League to shame

Postby Gerd Bibimbapper » Thu Jun 03, 2010 11:02 am

German bomb squad team killed trying to defuse second world war device
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/ju ... ills-three

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Re: How the Bundesliga puts the Premier League to shame

Postby eujin » Sun Sep 19, 2010 9:11 pm

Dortmund fans organise boycott to protest being charged 19 quid for a match that would sell out many times over (actually more like 10 quid at purchasing power parity).

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/eng_prem/8986321.stm

Back at Anfield, James McKenna - who is a Liverpool fan and member of the supporter group Spirit of Shankly - burst out laughing when he heard how much Schalke were proposing to charge Dortmund fans even after a price increase from last season.


Simon Chadwick, professor of sport business strategy and marketing at Coventry University, goes as far to suggest a link between German fans' desire for collective action and Germany's success in reaching the semi-finals in the 2010 World Cup.

"The Germans have a sharp sense of democracy and of the rights of people to openly express their views," said Chadwick.

"Dortmund fans, rather than feeling embarrassed or that they should not express opposing or confrontational views, are likely to have taken the view that it is their entitlement to take this form of action.

"Interestingly too, despite German 'openness' and democracy, ultimately, German society operates on the basis of consensus rather than unilateral action.

"As a footnote to this, I don't think British people have the same notion of consensus or collective action that the Germans do.

"I guess, in many ways, what happened in the summer at the World Cup is a microcosm of the differences between Germany and England.

"The group, the team, is always more important than a series of individuals. Moreover, I don't think the British, as a society, have the same strongly defined sense or acceptance of direct action as the Germans."


"The FA is public property, yet fans are not allowed a voice. I've got more ability to influence the House of Lords than I have the FA."

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Re: How the Bundesliga puts the Premier League to shame

Postby eujin » Thu Sep 01, 2011 3:22 am

For "professional" reasons I'll be moving to Hannover from October. But I don't think I'm going to like the football scene there. At the AWD Arena (Hannover 96's home ground) you have to get a pre-paid card to buy things like drinks and food inside the stadium, and the card has a three euro deposit you get back at the end of your days supporting Hannover or the end of your life, whichever comes first (lose the card and the money's gone). You can pay with cash at all grounds around Berlin. The last Hannover home game I went to they had a pre match interview beamed up on the big screen with one of the marketing spokeswomen of one of the sponsors, telling us how great her beer product was. Who has interviews with sponsors as a pre-match warm up? At half time the entire lower deck of one of the long sides emptied as all the sponsors went off for their half time hospitality.They don't really do sponsors at Babelsberg. They just play football.

Now I've found out that Hannover have bundled all their home Europa League games into one ticket. You cannot buy tickets for individual games and you have to go in the same section for each match. I can't make the game against Liege in September and I was hoping to go in the away end for the game against Copenhagen. That's not going to be possible now unless I buy through the Copenhagen club and then I'd have to do the same thing for the Ukrainian side Poltava and getting online tickets through them is just going to be painful.

Arses.

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Re: How the Bundesliga puts the Premier League to shame

Postby eujin » Thu Jan 09, 2014 10:55 pm

Bayern are going to be subsidising the cost of their fans' tickets for the Champions League match away at Arsenal so fans pay only 45 euros instead of the 75 euros that Arsenal charge. Seems very decent of them and particularly apt for this thread title.

http://www.fcbayern.de/de/tickets/news/2014/auswaertsspiel-bei-arsenal-london-ticket-info-aktuell.php

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Re: How the Bundesliga puts the Premier League to shame

Postby weka » Fri Jan 10, 2014 12:52 am

Bayern just keep getting better and better - don't they?
Image

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Re: How the Bundesliga puts the Premier League to shame

Postby eujin » Fri Jan 10, 2014 1:23 am

weka wrote:Bayern just keep getting better and better - don't they?

It depends what you mean. They get better at playing football, which means the league title becomes less competitive and thus worse. If they're going to spend all their prize money, it's better that they spend it subsidising their travelling fans (thereby bankrolling their opponents) rather than buying up everyone else's best players.

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Re: How the Bundesliga puts the Premier League to shame

Postby nzfooty » Tue Sep 23, 2014 8:07 am

RB Leipzig met with 15 minutes’ silence from 20,000 Union Berlin fans
At Alte Försterei stadium on Sunday, spectators dressed in black plastic ponchos as the protests against RB Leipzig continue

In theory, RB Leipzig’s players should have acclimatised to being the most widely loathed team in German football: over the past five years the club, owned and run by the Austrian energy drink giant Red Bull, has climbed through the lower leagues to its current position near the top of the second division, and the boos and jeers from opposing fans have got louder and louder.

And yet it seems they still weren’t prepared for what happened on Sunday: when Leipzig’s first XI entered Union Berlin’s Alte Försterei stadium at 1:30pm, they were greeted with 15 minutes of silence from the 20,000 spectators, clad almost entirely in black.

With permission from Union’s management, fans had handed out black plastic ponchos at the gates, along with a pamphlet headlined, “Football culture is dying in Leipzig – Union is alive”.

“Today’s opponent embodies everything that we at Union don’t want from football”, it read. “A marketing product pushed by financial interests […], players with euro signs in their eyes […], supported by brainwashed consumers in the stands who have never heard anything of fan ownership”.


More here.

A banner inside the stadium stated: “Football needs workers’ participation, loyalty, standing terraces, emotion, financial fair play, tradition, transparency, passion, history, independence.”

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Re: How the Bundesliga puts the Premier League to shame

Postby SteveW » Tue Sep 23, 2014 8:12 am

A banner inside the stadium stated: “Football needs workers’ participation, loyalty, standing terraces, emotion, financial fair play, tradition, transparency, passion, history, independence and scantily clad cheerleaders.


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Re: How the Bundesliga puts the Premier League to shame

Postby SaintsCanada » Tue Sep 23, 2014 9:22 am

Good idea for when ELand comes to town.
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