2005 AFC Champions League

AFC Champions League, Asian Cup, and everything else domestic and international.

Which team will fare better in ACL competition?

Suwon
4
57%
Busan
3
43%
 
Total votes: 7

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Postby Vasco » Wed May 25, 2005 2:49 am

If any of you guys overseas that want to catch the game, it's on CCTV5 via Coolstreaming. Check the ACL thread at BS for more info.
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Postby Holyjoe » Wed May 25, 2005 9:30 am

Yeah and for those of you in Korea, SBS Sports will be showing both games (Busan and Suwon) live.

Busan v Krung Thai Bank starts at 7pm and Shenzhen v Suwon starts at 8:30pm.

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Postby Elliad » Wed May 25, 2005 11:33 pm

Suwon is eliminated from the tournament after losing to Shenzhen 0-1.

Man those idiots.

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Postby Holyjoe » Wed May 25, 2005 11:37 pm

Aye, bloody hell... at least if anything Cha Bum-keun will have noticed that Sandro is a USELESS LAZY FUCKWIT and should be binned asap after his inept performance tonight.

Mind you that goes for most of them ;)

This wouldn't have happened if Zoran had been in the team :finger

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Postby Greenlion » Thu May 26, 2005 12:21 am

Holyjoe wrote:Aye, bloody hell... at least if anything Cha Bum-keun will have noticed that Sandro is a USELESS LAZY FUCKWIT and should be binned asap after his inept performance tonight.

Mind you that goes for most of them ;)

This wouldn't have happened if Zoran had been in the team :finger


Seems Suwon lost some key players~ but I think the Key problem is they should have beat shenzhen at home~ you know when C/K/J clubs meets each other, the home team have more chances to win except japanese :-D

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Postby Holyjoe » Thu May 26, 2005 9:51 am

Yeah no Kim Nam-il, Song Chong-guk, Choi Sung-yong or Kim Jin-woo through injury and Nadson suspended... but still, Cha goes on about the strength and depth of his squad so that's no real excuse.

The 0-0 home draw was the killer though. Here's hoping all that internal discord at Shenzhen right now causes the club to implode so Suwon can get to the quarter-finals by default ;)

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Postby Greenlion » Thu May 26, 2005 10:23 am

Holyjoe wrote:Yeah no Kim Nam-il, Song Chong-guk, Choi Sung-yong or Kim Jin-woo through injury and Nadson suspended... but still, Cha goes on about the strength and depth of his squad so that's no real excuse.

The 0-0 home draw was the killer though. Here's hoping all that internal discord at Shenzhen right now causes the club to implode so Suwon can get to the quarter-finals by default ;)


Wow maybe Shenzhen's plyers all seated together and had a drink the day before yeaterday and got a agreement on stop quarlling and fight together :-D

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ACL Quarter-final draw

Postby Holyjoe » Wed Jun 15, 2005 8:54 pm

Quarter-finals (Sep 14 and 21)
1. Al Ahli (Saudi Arabia) v Shenzhen Jianlibao (China)
2. Shandong Luneng (China) v Al Ittihad (Saudi Arabia)
3. Busan I'Park (South Korea) v Al Sadd (Qatar)
4. Al Ain (UAE) v Pas (Iran)

Semi-finals (Sep 28 and Oct 12)
A. Al Ain or Pas v Al Ahli or Shenzhen Jianlibao
B. Busan I'Park or Al Sadd v Shandong Luneng or Al Ittihad

Final (Oct 26 and Oct 31)
A winners v B winners

-----------------------

Tough game for Busan - Al Sadd are coached by Bora Milutinovic, the dude who's coached teams in each of the last five World Cup tournaments.
Interestingly they had four players banned from AFC competitions for a year after a brawl in an ACL game against a Kuwaiti team last year.

Ecuador international Carlos Tenorio plays for them but I haven't found any other names of their players as yet. Frank Leboeuf did play for them but he retired recently so won't be going up against Busan.

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Postby Holyjoe » Wed Jun 15, 2005 9:54 pm

Okay, this appears to be Al Sadd's squad list:

Goalkeepers
1 Ahmad Ali Hatmi
22 Basel Samith
25 Jabor Salem
30 Mohamed Saqr

Defenders
2 Jafal Al Kuwari
3 Essa Al Kuwari
4 Abdullah Al Bareek
6 Dahi Al Naami
9 Ali Al Nuaimi
13 Hossein Kaebi
14 Saoud Fath
21 Abdullah Koni
23 Anwar Mohammed
24 Abdulla Al Asseiri
28 Emad Al Dahri
29 Adel Hassan

Midfielders
5 Saud Ghanim
7 Wesam Rizik
8 Mased Al Hamad
10 Hussain Yasser
15 Talal Al Bloushi
17 Ezzat Jadoua
18 Youssef Chippo
19 Khalid Al Hajari
27 Ali Nasser Saleh

Forwards
11 Carlos Tenorio
12 Yusuf Ahmed
16 Mohamed Gholam
20 Ali Afef
26 Khalfan Ibrahim

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Postby GECKO22 » Thu Jul 14, 2005 2:58 pm

Chippo played for Southampton and Coventry (I think) a few years back?

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Postby Elliad » Thu Jul 14, 2005 10:41 pm

Al Saad is the club that bought Emerson for around 10 million USD from Urawa, I think. It may be pretty tough for Busan, even with their form.

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Interesting article about the AFC Champions League

Postby Holyjoe » Mon Aug 15, 2005 2:17 pm

Clubs sandwiched

Winning titles these days may be the preserve of the very rich but even those with pockets the size of the central Asian oilfields are not immune to the vicissitudes of promotion and relegation.

Those two words are part of the lore of the game, no matter where it is played. From the top professional divisions down to the lowliest amateur leagues, one is almost universal - if you do well, very well, better than anyone else, you win the race to the title. With that normally comes glory, financial reward, reams of headlines - and promotion (unless you are in the top division). The same holds true if you have do badly, very badly, much worse than anyone else - infamy, possible financial ruin, reams of headlines - and relegation.

The principle which underpins all this is a simple one: everyone and anyone can be a king one day, the only caveat being that you don't forget that the crown is not yours for keeps; it can be easily toppled by those wishing to take their place at the high table.

In Asia, where professional football is a relatively new concept, this rule does not apply as much as it does in other parts of the world for the simple reason that the league pyramid structure does not have the same depth as in other parts of the world.

This is being addressed by the Asian Football Confederation (AFC), who have made improving club football and domestic structures across the continent one of the pillars of their Vision Asia blueprint for the future development of Asian football.

Strange, then, that game's governing body in Asia have, wittingly or not, taken a decision which, in many people's opinion, seriously hampers the ability of clubs to develop at their own pace, if at all.

Under the AFC's ranking system, which divides the 45 national associations in Asia into 'mature', 'developing' and 'emerging', many sides are now finding that natural progression is not quite as straightforward as one would imagine given the rigidity of the ranking system.

While it would be hard to disagree that qualification for any of the AFC¡¯s three continental club competitions – the AFC Champions League, the AFC Cup and the AFC President¡¯s Cup - does have to be controlled given the size of the continent and the disparity in playing standards, the inability of any nation or club within the AFC family to climb up or fall down football¡¯s ladder of importance is becoming a thorny issue.

As things currently stand, members of the AFC are split into three aforementioned categories. The clubs from these countries are then shoehorned into three respective competitions – the top 14 into the AFC Champions League; the next 14 into the AFC Cup; the rest into the AFC President¡¯s Cup.

What this means in practice is that clubs from the likes of Korea, Japan, Saudi Arabia, China, Iran, Qatar, Kuwait, the United Arab Emirates and Uzbekistan all compete in the AFC Champions League. Few would argue that these countries make up the elite of Asian football, whether at national team or at club level.

The argument only comes when you consider the other countries who are also rated ¡®mature¡¯ and therefore participate in the AFC Champions League: Indonesia, Thailand, Vietnam, Iraq and Syria (although they are only a de facto member of Asia¡¯s ¡®G14¡¯ as Bahrain have been expelled by the AFC following their withdrawal from the 2003 AFC competition).

Among the ¡®developing¡¯ countries are the likes of Malaysia, Singapore, India, Jordan, Lebanon and a host of others.

Then there are clubs from ¡®emerging¡¯ associations - Pakistan, Nepal, Tajikistan (who produced this year¡¯s inaugural winners in the shape of Regar TadAZ) and a handful of other aspirants. In a competition far removed from the glitz of the Champions League, these teams gun for glory in the President¡¯s Cup.

There is no denying that a semblance of order is required from an administrative point of view. Equally, few would disagree that the champions of Bhutan have very little in common with, say, their counterparts in J-League or K.League.

In fact, it is only right and proper that national associations (and the clubs who represent them) should be rewarded according to the success of their clubs in competitions over a given period. (That, by way of an explanation, is how UEFA¡¯s coefficient ranking system works, which explains why Italy and Spain have four places in the 2005/6 UEFA Champions League while Germany and France have three places.)


While the AFC¡¯s system works on many levels, it falls down for one simple reason: there is no mechanic in the system for movement up or down in the pecking order. Inherent in any ranking system, surely, is the possibility of moving up or down that list, with the concomitant rewards (or penalties) for so doing.

According to the AFC, for nations to be considered worthy of mature status, they must tick three boxes.


Firstly, standards must be to a suitably high level. Not only must sides be able to play competently, but they must also have adequate stadiums, training facilities and a recognised coaching structure firmly in place. Would-be AFC Champions League outfits must also compete in a recognisable domestic league.

Finally, there must be a high degree of infrastructure within the club¡¯s country. Transport links must be good and factors such as the proximity of an international airport and the frequency of flights to the country are also examined.

A glance at the various clubs competing at continental level would, using the AFC¡¯s criteria, give us a good idea of which countries have three ticks alongside their names and those with work still to do.


A closer inspection, however, reveals real flaws in the system, flaws which could easily be ironed out by allowing movement between the mature, developing and emerging nations.


As an example, take the Thai teams competing in this year¡¯s AFC Champions League.

Thailand, perceived by the AFC as a mature nation, were afforded two entries into the continent¡¯s highest profile competition - Krung Thai Bank (2004 league winners) and BEC Tero Sasana (2004 league runners-up). Both failed to go beyond the Group phase.

Of the two, BEC were by far the most disappointing. One point from a possible 18 is nothing to write home about. Their compatriots fared somewhat better by registering nine points – albeit courtesy of wins against fellow ASEAN sides.


Admittedly, the criteria for a nation to be bestowed a mature rating have, in the past, been met by Thailand. The national side has ruled the south east Asian roost for many a year, there are good facilities within the country and BEC were AFC Champions League finalists in 2003.

How times have changed.


Thailand recently relinquished their Tiger Cup crown and BEC Tero have flopped on the domestic and continental stage in both 2004 and 2005. Krung Thai finished second in the group stage in 2004 just as they did in 2005.

Contrast Thailand¡¯s malaise with up and coming Singapore and the island republic¡¯s Home United.

The Protectors were double winners in 2003 and both league and cup runners-up in 2004. They reached the semi-finals of the 2004 AFC Cup and are on the verge of going just as far this season. Add the fact that Singapore are the reigning Tiger Cup champions and the lobbying for them to replace Thailand in the mature band of nations gathers pace.


Not that Thailand is the only nation with AFC Champions League representatives under scrutiny. Indonesian, Vietnamese and Syrian sides all had mediocre campaigns. And Iraq, despite a decent track record in Asian club competitions, could hardly be said to have the necessary domestic infrastructure to merit a place in the AFC Champions League.

Yet, because the next review of the ranking system is not due until 2008, clubs from those countries will line up in the 2006 and 2007 tournaments thereby forcing Home United – or any other rapidly improving team currently kicking their heels in either the AFC or President¡¯s Cups - to wait nearly three years for a chance to measure their progress against some of the region¡¯s best operators.

Home United boss Steve Darby, while quick to extol the virtues of both the AFC Champions League and the AFC Cup, believes his charges would relish the chance to tackle Asia¡¯s big guns.


¡°Realistically Home United have more chance of success in the AFC Cup as we avoid the giants of Korea, Japan and China,¡± admitted the Englishman.


¡°These clubs have massive budgets, large squads and are not hamstrung by salary caps and a small playing population.

¡°However, if you are ambitious as a player, coach and even as a club you always have a desire to take the big boys on and see how you go. In reality defeats will occur but how else do you get better.¡±


Darby¡¯s point goes to the very heart of the argument. Few would disagree that Thai sides should not have competed in the AFC Champions League – they too have a right to suffer defeats in a bid to improve.

The key question, though, is should they be allowed to do so for several years at the expense of a nation that is, most definitely on an upward footballing trajectory.


The logical answer is no. A failing nation (and therefore its clubs) should naturally be replaced by one on the up.

Not that the demoted party should be cast in to a black hole – the very beauty of the promotion and relegation system is that they can, in time, regain their previous, loftier status.


For the sake of continental development, a degree of fluidity in the AFC¡¯s ranking system would most certainly go a long way to improving club football on this vast and disparate continent.

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Postby Holyjoe » Wed Sep 14, 2005 10:41 pm

Well Al Sadd were absolutely hopeless tonight, and Busan should have won by a lot more than 3-0. Da Silva got the first, then an Al Sadd boy got sent off for dragging his studs down Popo's back with ten minutes to go and Busan added another two in the final five minutes (Da Silva again and then Yoon Hee-joon).

Denis Laktionov had a rather embarrassing miss midway through the second half and it really should have been about six or seven. Barring a major collapse in the second leg next week Busan look good for the semi-finals.

The attendance at the game was 1,139...

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Postby SteveW » Thu Sep 15, 2005 12:28 am

That unexpected collapse could be on though...

Is it just my imagination or do most teams in the ACL seem to have absolutely crap results away from home?
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Postby Colombian » Mon Sep 19, 2005 1:26 pm

Yeah, but any Busan Away game is likely to attract about as many Busan fans as a home game, so no difference there...
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