Help me (finally) write my Korean footie book!

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OttoSilver
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Re: Help me (finally) write my Korean footie book!

Postby OttoSilver » Mon Feb 01, 2016 4:26 pm

MipoFanatic wrote:Only question now is what sort of dollars (불) Urumov was paid in. I'm going to guess that Samsung are clever bastards and made it Fijian.

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I see your Fijian Dollars and raise you some Zim Dollars

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Re: Help me (finally) write my Korean footie book!

Postby MipoFanatic » Thu Feb 04, 2016 10:43 am

MipoFanatic wrote:Apologies, there were two typos in my earlier post that completely garbled the meaning. I had meant to write:
* Porterfield said Urumov's contract was up in the middle of the 2003 season (not the end).
* Porterfield was (incorrectly) informed that K-League players at the end of their contract could not move to a different K-League club on a "Bosman" transfer.


Sorry to keep banging on about Urumov's transfer from Busan to Suwon in mid-2003, but I thought I'd ask if anyone knows (roughly) what the K-League "free agency" rules were back in 2003.

Several years after 2003, the primary rule was that:

...players are eligible for free agency at the end of their contracts, as long as they’ve played at least half of the team’s regular season games over the duration of their contracts.


Additionally, it seems that players who received a signing bonus were not eligible for free agency.

To rewind a few years, free agency eligibility apparently became more lenient after the 2003 season, according to a brief mention in an article from late 2003 that is no longer online:

K-League Struggles As Chunma Sparkle
Korea Times
November 19, 2003
By Eoghan Sweeney

The changing free agency rules may free up some of the wasted talent around the league...


As such, I'm a bit curious as to what the free agency rules were at the time Urumov transferred (mid-2003). Perhaps a higher percentage of matches played (perhaps something like 75%?), or possibly a minimum amount of time spent at a club (X number of years?), or player age?

Any leads greatly appreciated.

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Re: Help me (finally) write my Korean footie book!

Postby MipoFanatic » Fri Feb 12, 2016 7:05 am

Short version: Ian Porterfield brought a goalkeeping coach from the UK to Busan I'cons for a couple of months during the first half of the 2003 K-League season. Who was he?

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Long version: Chung Yoo-suk/정유석 was Busan's primary goalkeeper when Ian Porterfield joined the club for the 2003 K-League season. However, Porterfield took a shine to back-up goalkeeper Kim Yong-dae, and decided to bring in a European coach to work with the tall youngster for a couple of months. Kim soon became Busan's primary goalkeeper... and subsequently buggered off to greener club pastures.

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Re: Help me (finally) write my Korean footie book!

Postby Holyjoe » Fri Feb 12, 2016 9:01 am

Can't help much with the FA rules, they've always confused me!

The goalkeeping coach definitely came from Rotherham United, I remember that much because then Aberdeen goalkeeper Ryan Essom went on loan to Rotherham around that time and I remember thinking the guy at Busan would have or would be coaching him. Can't recall his name but an email to Rotherham United should clear that up.

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Re: Help me (finally) write my Korean footie book!

Postby Holyjoe » Fri Feb 12, 2016 9:05 am

Google (and in fact you in a previous guise ;-) ) tells me his name was Graham Brown.

Of course the old old forum is long gone so the interview piece may not survive..

2.) Current Rotherham United (English 1st Division) goalkeeping coach and chief scout Graham Brown has joined Busan until the end of the month to train our goalkeepers. There's an interview with him on the Busan I'cons Foreign Supporters Club forum, if you can be arsed to go there:

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Re: Help me (finally) write my Korean footie book!

Postby MipoFanatic » Fri Feb 12, 2016 9:14 am

Holyjoe wrote:The goalkeeping coach definitely came from Rotherham United, I remember that much because then Aberdeen goalkeeper Ryan Essom went on loan to Rotherham around that time and I remember thinking the guy at Busan would have or would be coaching him. Can't recall his name but an email to Rotherham United should clear that up.


Thanks for that. I did a search for Rotherham and the answer was buried deep within my files. I actually found it in the "The British Influence On Korean Football" article you once wrote.

How incestuous all of this is! :smt117

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Re: Help me (finally) write my Korean footie book!

Postby MipoFanatic » Fri Feb 12, 2016 9:21 am

Holyjoe wrote:Google (and in fact you in a previous guise ;-) ) tells me his name was Graham Brown.

Of course the old old forum is long gone so the interview piece may not survive..


Hah, you beat me to it.

Sadly, no, the interview seems to be long gone. One of the few things I didn't overzealously make copies of. However, his name will likely suffice.

Cheers.

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Re: Help me (finally) write my Korean footie book!

Postby Holyjoe » Fri Feb 12, 2016 9:23 am

Funny the things you turn up, whilst putting "Graham Brown Rotherham Korea" into Google it listed Shaun Goater's page quite prominently.. this from his Wiki page, apparently backed up by an entry in his autobiography, reckons he could have joined Suwon before going on to become a pretty big name with Manchester City (back when they were shit). You can probably make an additional link to the K-League in that when he joined Reading in the summer of 2003 he was most probably signed as a replacement for Jamie Cureton who had just left for Busan a couple of weeks previously.

In the 1995–96 close season, Goater received offers from Spanish club Osasuna and newly formed South Koreans Suwon Samsung Bluewings, but having recently married, he decided to stay in England.[11] Shortly after, he moved to Bristol City for a fee of £175,000.

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Re: Help me (finally) write my Korean footie book!

Postby MipoFanatic » Fri Feb 12, 2016 10:05 am

Holyjoe wrote:You can probably make an additional link to the K-League in that when he joined Reading in the summer of 2003 he was most probably signed as a replacement for Jamie Cureton who had just left for Busan a couple of weeks previously.


Tremendous find - thanks a bunch. Might as well just have you finish the book while you're at it, yeah? :smt109

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Re: Help me (finally) write my Korean footie book!

Postby Holyjoe » Fri Feb 12, 2016 10:29 am

MipoFanatic wrote:
Holyjoe wrote:You can probably make an additional link to the K-League in that when he joined Reading in the summer of 2003 he was most probably signed as a replacement for Jamie Cureton who had just left for Busan a couple of weeks previously.


Tremendous find - thanks a bunch. Might as well just have you finish the book while you're at it, yeah? :smt109


Haha any book on Korean football I end up writing (and I have thought about it, who hasn't is more the question) would probably be about 400 pages of similarly turgid prose full of ridiculously anal and obscure factual references like that British football article, subject matter of which there are probably only about three other people in the world who would be remotely interested to anything like that degree. And that's from when my interest in Korean football was primarily in the top flight, the majority of chapters would be on guys who looked semi decent after a few games for Incheon Korail reserves and where they eventually ended up. Riveting stuff.

Actually the Shaun Goater link, which I genuinely never knew about, puts a whole different spin on Suwon's squad building approach for their inaugural season. I'd often wondered how they came about signing the Dundee United goalkeeper Henrik Jorgensen as that always seemed a pretty strange one (why specifically a reserve goalie from a side that had been relegated from the Scottish Premier Division), but if they were in for Goater as well then presumably they had contact with an agent who was looking to get UK-based players to Korea. I wonder if there were any other offers made to players at Scottish or English clubs by Suwon back then...

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Re: Help me (finally) write my Korean footie book!

Postby MipoFanatic » Thu Feb 18, 2016 7:47 am

Has Sangmu built a player barracks in Sangju, or are they still based in Seongnam (as was the case when the team still played in Gwangju)?

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Re: Help me (finally) write my Korean footie book!

Postby MipoFanatic » Tue May 31, 2016 4:57 am

Curious if anyone has insight as to why so many clubs in Northeast Asia house their players in dormitories. They exist in South Korea, Japan, and China, although I'm unsure just how prevalent they are.

South Korea's mandatory military conscription and "barracks culture" may add weight to the notion that housing people together makes for a stronger team spirit.

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Re: Help me (finally) write my Korean footie book!

Postby SteveW » Tue May 31, 2016 5:32 am

Don't they do they same in lots of Euro leagues as well?

I know the Italians used to talk about being based in training camps during the season. No idea if that practice has changed.

I think it's mostly to do with being able to control the players schedules and activities and team building. They train all day, eat provided meals and are away from any potential distractions.
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Re: Help me (finally) write my Korean footie book!

Postby MipoFanatic » Tue May 31, 2016 6:42 am

Sure, but I'm surprised that those benefits outweigh the need for privacy, personal space, etc. Surely most white-collar jaebeol employees don't live in dorms.

I'm curious if players live at the dorms during the close season.

Do any K-League clubs not have any player dorms, or at least not require players to live in dorms? Would that be a signing incentive for some older players who'd rather live alone?

At FC Anyang, domestic players live in dorms (or at least they did a year or two ago under the previous manager), while the foreign players don't. Perhaps an admission that many/most of the foreign players in the K-League don't come from a culture with player dorms?

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Re: Help me (finally) write my Korean footie book!

Postby Alex43 » Tue May 31, 2016 8:42 am

my opinion: when you provide dorms, you can pay lower wages cause there isnt the need for players to pay for that on their own. if you are already feeding them 2 or 3 times a day, why not combine the two for a dorm cafeteria.


so the teams here all have them i believe, it's up to the coach and team as to how they get used (if i am not mistaken). Kevin oris was at daejeon before he came to jeonbuk, as you know. he said at DCFC they werent asked to stay the night before at the dorm, where as jeonbuk, players will often spend a week without being able to go home (proper boot camp).

Some of the korean players i talked to said to me (at the end of the season) 'i'm just going to go home for a month' 'ah, you have a house in jeonju or something?" "no, i'll just go stay at my parents house in (seoul)" a lot of them didnt have cars either, quite strange as the clubhouse doesnt have a convenience store or anything. just the three meals and about a 45 minute walk to the nearest GS25.

The Jeju foreigners have these house built for them on the front edge of the property. It's a great looking club house, about 10 minutes from the stadium (west of the stadium on the same road if u ever want to find it). When i talked to droguet, he said it was a big 2 story house, 4 rooms (if i remember correctly). alek (the CB) was there at the same time, but since he didnt have family, he had to stay in the dorm with the other lads. now he told me it wasnt like boot camp and they could go out when they pleased, I think jeonbuk is a rare case. "people come here for a year or two and but up with the (system) because they can make a little bit more money here".
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