Transfers thread (pre-2009)

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mustoe02
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Re: Transfers thread (pre-2009)

Postby mustoe02 » Fri Jan 16, 2009 1:15 am

So then, would you say that a move from the A-League to the K-League is seen as a step up for some? I've just got so used to players jumping from the K-League ship this winter to the J-League, Russia or seemingly any other league that I forgot that maybe, for some, the K-League isn't actually so bad after all.

Do the Korean league pay better than the Aussie one?

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Re: Transfers thread (pre-2009)

Postby njs » Fri Jan 16, 2009 6:43 am

I would call it a very slight step up. A-League would be more robust and [physical and they'd be better in the air. But the K-League is more skillful with faster, fitter players. You'd put the better A-League teams in the top half of the K-League table but they'd tail away after that. Also at them moment there are just 8 A-League teams compared to the 15 or so in the K-League so there's a fair bit more depth in the K-League.

I don't think any of the top leagues in Europe would pay any more attention to either though. They'd consider them about on a par.
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Re: Transfers thread (pre-2009)

Postby njs » Fri Jan 16, 2009 7:48 am

Further to that, there's more international players in the K-League with not so many of the Korean internationals overseas. Compare that to the A-League where from memory the last time they picked a full strength Australian team there was only one played in the entire squad playing in the A-League. The rest were all plying their trade overseas. It seems to be easier for Aussie players to get out and about. Hell, there's probably as many NZers playing in crappy leagues around the world than Koreans.

And I do recall Pim Verbeek saying that the A-League was about the standard of an out of form German lower division teams training run. Although he was probably being a bit unfair. It must be frustrating to be stuck in Aussie every weekend watching a competition which basically has nobody on show who is in your frame for national selection. The standard is still decent though and they would average larger crowds than the K-League. Cos their crowd figures are actually real with a current season average of 11,800 and the worst team in the comp averaging a respectable 7,000. And I repeat, those averages are real.
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Re: Transfers thread (pre-2009)

Postby Holyjoe » Fri Jan 16, 2009 8:28 am

A few more transfers:

Busan have signed Jeju's Brazilian midfielder Romulo Marques Macedo on a two year contract, and have confirmed that Fabio and Guara will be remaining with the team for 2009 to make up their complement of foreigners. Still room for an AFC player, though.

Jeju have brought in two new Brazilians, one called Ricardo (26, Atletico Paranaense) and the other Vieira (25, from Georgian side FC Zestaponi).

Apparently Seongnam were interested in signing Busan's Jung Sung-hoon but were put off when they demanded a $1m transfer fee instead, so are turning their sights on Chunnam's legendary forward Ko Ki-goo

And some more on Ahn's struggle to attract interest from the MLS:

Ahn the Bubble

South Korean 2002 World Cup star Ahn Jung Hwan may be itching to play in MLS but interest from the league has been tepid at best.

Of the seven MLS teams that requested DVDs of Ahn, only one has initiated discussions about a deal, said a source. Ahn, 33, left his former club, Busan I'Park, in December when the two sides couldn't agree on a new contract.

He scored against the USA and netted a dramatic golden goal against Italy in the 2002 World Cup, which prompted a temporary suspension from his club at the time, Perugia of Serie A. After the tournament he played in Japan, France and Germany before returning to South Korea three years ago.

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Re: Transfers thread (pre-2009)

Postby Sampo » Fri Jan 16, 2009 9:37 am

I think its the LA Beckhams that are interested. :)

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Re: Transfers thread (pre-2009)

Postby Evergreen » Fri Jan 16, 2009 10:17 am

I'm so glad that we are drastically improving our squad after last year's farce......
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Re: Transfers thread (pre-2009)

Postby Bruce Ramsay » Fri Jan 16, 2009 2:26 pm

mustoe02 wrote:So then, would you say that a move from the A-League to the K-League is seen as a step up for some? I've just got so used to players jumping from the K-League ship this winter to the J-League, Russia or seemingly any other league that I forgot that maybe, for some, the K-League isn't actually so bad after all.

Do the Korean league pay better than the Aussie one?


I am not really in a position to comment on the respective qualities of the 2 Leagues. The only examples of Korean club football I have ever seen was the games in last year's ACL by Pohang Steelers against Adelaide United and Chunnam Dragons against Melbourne Victory. In fact, it is my lack of previous exposure not just to Korean football but also to football in Asia generally, that leads me to read this Forum regularly, as well as websites or news feeds from other Asian leagues. I am very interested in Asian football and am trying to both inform myself and educate myself about it to the extent possible via the web!

As far as pay goes tho - I think I may be able to comment. As far as I am aware, the K-League probably pays considerably better than the A-League. Most A-League players don't actually earn a lot - thats why players like Jade North and Sasa Ognenovski are more than happy to land a contract with K-League clubs. The main reason A-League pay is low is the fact that there is a salary cap in place - designed to help prevent clubs from overspending in their quest to win a title (apparently that was a feature of some clubs' behaviour during the NSL - which was the predecessor of the A-League).

All A-League clubs are restricted to a contracted roster (excluding Youth League players) of a minimum of 20 and a maximum of 23. They are also restricted to spending a total of AU$1.9 million per year on player salaries - with the proviso that all contracted players must be paid a minimum yearly salary of AU$45,000 (which on current exchange rates is roughly 41.3 million Won). In the context of life in Australia, $45,000 isn't rich man's money - in fact, if someone was earning that and also had a family with a couple of kids, they would probably be wanting their partner/spouse to be working too.

I have no idea of the average amount of salary paid by A-League clubs to their players. However, I imagine that not many would be getting just the bare minimum. But with a total pot of $1.9 million to be spread over around 20 players, it puts the "theoretical" average at somewhere between about AU$90,000 and AU$100,000. Thats not bad for life here - but again, its not in the higher echelons of living either, especially if you have a fairly hefty mortgage. So in terms of Won, I guess that means (roughly) that the average A-League player payment is of the order of 80 - 90 million per year. I don't have any idea at all of how that stacks up with what your players actually get, on average.

The only other factor that the A-League has in regard to payments is that 2 players can be excluded from the salary cap and paid outside it by private arrangement with the club. Since its inception 4 years ago, the A-League has had a "marquee player" category, whereby each club can sign one player outside of the salary cap and pay him whatever they like. Thus in Year 1 of the League (2005/06), Sydney FC signed Dwight Yorke as their marquee - for a fee which I am unsure of. And next year (2009/10, Year 5), two new clubs are entering the A-League and one of them (Gold Coast United) yesterday announced that it had signed current Socceroo Jason Culina as its marquee player for 3 seasons at a reputed AU$1.4 million per year (Culina knocked back a higher 3 year offer from his current club PSV Eindhoven - he said that he wants to play in the A-League while he is still in his prime, rather than doing what all others have done so far and come back when their European careers were basically over).

Also this season (2008/09) the A-League introduced an "under-23 marquee" category - where a club could pay an under-23 contracted player up to AU$150,000 per year outside the salary cap. I believe this is going to be enhanced in some way for the 2009/10 season - possibly by allowing the payment to be spread over 2 or more players eg by giving "top up" payments to other under-23s if the full $150,000 is not spent on one player.

Hope this gives you some insights into football payments in Australia - and a basis for making some comparisons with what happens in the Korean League.

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Bruce

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Re: Transfers thread (pre-2009)

Postby mustoe02 » Fri Jan 16, 2009 7:43 pm

Cheers Bruce, that was really interesting.

I had kind of read a little bit about the marque player systen you have over there, I've always wondered how the marque player gets treated, when everyone else in the squad knows that that one bloke earns more in a year than the rest of them put together. I remember last season John Terry was asking for a huge pay rise on his paltry 67,000 quid a week as Lampard had just signed one worth more than 100,000 a week. Poor lad, amazing how he can keep his kids in shoes.

No chance of it being implemented in Korea, England or anywhere else though, which is a shame really.

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Re: Transfers thread (pre-2009)

Postby Sampo » Sat Jan 17, 2009 2:03 am

The MLS in America has a similar system as the A-League. With a salary cap, with exemptions. From what I've heard its mostly led to fans complaining about wasting money on aging stars, who can't score a goal to save their life, and complaining how the league is desperately trying to get LA to win the league, and is changing the rules to do so.

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Re: Transfers thread (pre-2009)

Postby mustoe02 » Sat Jan 17, 2009 11:29 pm

Sorry, by "anywhere else" I kind of meant any of the important leagues! ã…‹ã…‹ã…‹

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Re: Transfers thread (pre-2009)

Postby njs » Sun Jan 18, 2009 9:53 am

Bruce Ramsay wrote:All A-League clubs are restricted to a contracted roster (excluding Youth League players) of a minimum of 20 and a maximum of 23. They are also restricted to spending a total of AU$1.9 million per year on player salaries - with the proviso that all contracted players must be paid a minimum yearly salary of AU$45,000 (which on current exchange rates is roughly 41.3 million Won). In the context of life in Australia, $45,000 isn't rich man's money - in fact, if someone was earning that and also had a family with a couple of kids, they would probably be wanting their partner/spouse to be working too.


45,000 isn't a heck of a lot. It's about what I'm on in NZ as a teacher when I exchange it to NZ dollars so the worst Phoenix players would be on about a par with me. We get by on it in a single income house ... just.

I think it would probably be a bit more than the lowest paid K-League players although perhaps thats the guys 25-40 that some clubs have that play in their second teams. The A-League doesn't have a reserve grade compeition. The thing with the k-League is it's so variable as to how much the teams can afford to spend. Generally the chaebol teams have it all over the other sides, you only have to look at the league table each year to see that. You wonder who is at fault if there is any fault. Do the top sides like FC Seould and Suwon cut back to more realistic amounts for players and try to at least breakeven or should the citizen type clubs invest more heavily in players and try to really compete properly? (and of course risk bankcruptcy, but possibly generate more income and more interest) otherwise you end up with some kind of long term 'football' disease (that has IMO wrecked the Scottish league, the EPL, serie a, etc etc) taking hold and destroying any thought of a real 'competition' involving all the sides at the start of each season. Instead we generally have 6 sides who could win it and then the only point of interest is which of the other teams out does itself.
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Re: Transfers thread (pre-2009)

Postby Bruce Ramsay » Sun Jan 18, 2009 2:53 pm

I noticed the name Mota in connection with Seongnam and possible transfer rumours in a few earlier posts.

Not sure how much of the following is news to the Forum - but the below is a news report published just a little while ago on the Australian broadcaster SBS's football website http://theworldgame.sbs.com.au/asia/

"Seognam Ilhwa forward Mota is close to returning to Brazil from South Korea and joining giants Flamengo.

Flamengo football director Plinio Serpa Pinto confirmed that the 28-year-old striker will arrive on a one-year loan deal.

"We are not going to talk about numbers. I only can say that the club, an investment group and the player signed a contract for a one-year loan," said Pinto to http://www.globoesporte.com

According to local reports, the investment group will pay US$1million ($A1.5million) for the loan of the former Sporting Lisbon and Cruzeiro attacker."

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Re: Transfers thread (pre-2009)

Postby Holyjoe » Mon Jan 19, 2009 6:17 am

It's a shame to lose someone like Mota from the K-League, and I can't quite see why Seongnam would want to shunt him out on loan. Perhaps the player himself has had enough but all reports seem to suggest it's the new boss who wants to change everything at the club.

On salaries, the Korean and Chinese media are reporting that Li Weifeng will pick up $500,000 for his one-year deal with Suwon which isn't too bad if true. Pim Verbeek would rather the players didn't go to Korea though:

Q. You'll be relying on A-League players for the Asian Cup campaign, but in the past month a couple of candidates, Jade North and Sasa Ognenovski, have confirmed they are joining clubs in Korea. Is this good or bad for your preparations, and does it affect their chances of selection?

A. I know the K-League very well. It's a difficult league to play in, it will not be easy for the boys to go over there, because of the language, the different approach to football, especially the training. But the K-League is definitely not better than the A-League. The money is better, that's all. I would prefer the players go to Europe, because in Europe the leagues are better. That's the way it is. But I will still look at players who go to Asia, it doesn't mean I will not pick them.


Also, this page has appeared on Wikipedia suggesting FC Seoul have signed a 16 year-old left winger from OFK Beograd youth team called Marijan Jook-Dusan Dong. The page is riddled with errors though, including two birthdates and also a bit of confusion in the page history as to whether he's part-Singaporean or part-Korean.

If he's even a real person... :?

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Re: Transfers thread (pre-2009)

Postby njs » Mon Jan 19, 2009 9:31 am

Interesting that he says the K-League is no better. He would know better than any of us though. I think they are damn hard to compare due to the different styles and types of players in each league. Also the K-League has the same sides at the top year after year so in a way it's two compeititions/divisions rolled into one. Plus the A-League has 8 teams and the K-League 15. Of course if the K-League cut back to 10 teams or less the standard would be fairly impressive. While the A-League is about to expand to 10 teams which I think is a very bad move from the organisers. All it will mean is some ordinary teams like the Jets, Glory and Phoenix become weaker. The Phoenix's top goalscorer (and leagues top goalscorer) Shane Smeltz has 12 of their 23 goals and has signed with the Gold Coast expansion team. Well where the hell are the Phoenix going to get goals from now? Being a bit of a one man band up front has already held them back.

It's something the K-League has to face these days as well with the massive expansion that has gone on at all levels (probably well overdue) but at least they have a shed load of competent players and a relatively small country to help out with players moving around.
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Re: Transfers thread (pre-2009)

Postby Bruce Ramsay » Mon Jan 19, 2009 2:36 pm

This might interest some of you - particularly the Seongnam suporters. Hot off the SBS presses here:

Regards,
Bruce

PS I think it was probably pretty hastily bashed out by the journo after Verbeek spoke. Ognenovski is the Adelaide "hard man" - he used to be with Queensland up to this season but left them to join Adelaide prior to the start of their 2008 ACL Campaign.



"Verbeek explains his choices

Socceroos coach Pim Verbeek said the reason he did not pick Queensland hard man Sasa Ognenovski in his squad for the 2011 Asian Cup qualifier against Indonesia was to protect his international ambitions.

Ognenovski, who is one of the mainstays behind Adelaide United's bid for the A-League title, was one of several high-profile omissions from the Dutchman’s squad for the match in Jakarta on January 28.

But while his defensive club-mate Robert Cornthwaite was picked, Ognenovski was surprisingly left out.

“He is not that young anymore,” Verbeek said, when asked why the 29-year-old defender who has a Macedonian background was overlooked.

“The chance of him being a Socceroos player at the World Cup is not that big so I prefer to take players with possibilities.

“I’ve also read that Macedonia is top of his list so I think it is good for him to focus on that country.”

Verbeek said he did not wish to deprive the tough defender of a chance to earn a belated international career.

“Ognenovski can still play for Macedonia,” Verbeek explained.

“Why should I block his future by having him play one game in Indonesia and then he can never play again for another country in international football?”

FIFA rules stipulate that once you play for one country at senior level you cannot play for another.

Verbeek said the lack of serious preparation for the match in Jakarta had forced him to pick blocks of players, who were likely to do the job for him because of their understanding at club level.

Hence the selection of Melbourne Victory strike partners Archie Thompson and Danny Allsopp and their Central Coast Mariners counterparts Dylan Macallister and Matt Simon as the four strikers in a 21-member squad.

The coach suggested that he will pick either a ‘Victory’ or ‘Mariners’ strike force for the match at the huge Gelora Bung Karno Stadium, which can hold 88,000.

“These four are the best strikers I’ve got,” he declared.

“But because we will have no preparation for the game it is best to pick the players who are used to playing alongside each other. We have to find out which is the better combination.

“It was interesting to see last Friday’s match at Telstra Dome that featured all four players.”

Since Melbourne crushed the Mariners 3-0 with Thompson and Allsopp both scoring and playing well, they will be widely expected to start in Jakarta.

Verbeek said he could not afford to pick Perth Glory flier Nikita Rukavytsya, who is trialling in the Netherlands with FC Twente.

“I would have picked Rukavytsya but you never know what’s going to happen with him in Holland,” Verbeek said. “So he is on standby.”

Verbeek is suspended for the match as he will be serving the first of a three-match ban after being sent off as Korea Republic coach in the match for third place against Japan at the 2007 Asian Cup.

Verbeek will be sitting in the stands while Graham Arnold will be on the bench alongside assistant Henk Duut. "Arnie will be the boss," Verbeek said. "He will make the final decisions."

The squad contains six players from Melbourne and significantly only two - Moore and Thompson - with any significant Socceroos experience.

SOCCEROOS SQUAD: Danny Allsopp (Melbourne), Billy Celeski (Melbourne), Shannon Cole (Sydney), Robert Cornthwaite (Adelaide), Tarek Elrich (Newcastle), Eugene Galekovic (Adelaide), Dean Heffernan (Central Coast), Scott Jamieson (Adelaide), Dylan Macallister (Central Coast), Matthew McKay (Queensland), Craig Moore (Queensland), Tom Pondeljak (Melbourne), Paul Reid (Adelaide), Matt Simon (Central Coast), Michael Theoklitos (Melbourne), Archie Thompson (Melbourne), Matthew Thompson (Newcastle), Nikolai Topor-Stanley (Perth), Rodrigo Vargas (Melbourne), Danny Vukovic (Central Coast), Michael Zullo (Queensland)."


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