K-League - Incheon United - Incheon Football Stadium

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Re: Incheon United's New Stadium (under construction)

Postby Roarchild » Fri Feb 03, 2012 11:05 am

willamangiro wrote:
I must say, although i'll be paying closer attention this year, the korean matches dont make a great spectacle on tv, do they? It reminds me of when I was young watching Barnet. In one game we beat Blackpool 7-0. In my mind we'd had about 50 chances in the game. Then I watched a video of the match, and discovered that most of these 'chances' were simply crosses into the box that looked far better from my position in the stadium then they actually were!
When football is good (like the EPL) then its very much suited for tv. But when its bad (and we've got to face facts, the k league is simply dire at times!) then tv isnt a great medium for it. I imagine seeing empty stadiums does little to impress people either.

I think there needs to be a new rule in the k-league, where the chaebols get together and create a centralised 'star player' fund. Each team gets an equal amount to spend on a player that must be a 'big name'; someone like Pires, Crespo etc who is past their best but still good enough for the kleague. Then you'd see tv coverage grow, interest grow, and ultimately attendances grow. But thats not going to happen unless the k league can take an element of the 'EPL experience' and sell it to the people of korea.


Australia has a similar system to what you are suggesting called the Marquee system. In Australia there is a salary cap so it's an important rule to make sure teams can add Star power if they want. In Korea the chaebols already have a lot of cash and the means to recruit name players if they want and I am sure one of them will stump up the cash to bring Park Ji Sung back when he is finished at United. The new Indian league is using that system too and it's a good interest boost for people that aren't following the league but for those already following they generally just prefer to see their team win matches. I think some teams have just stopped worrying so much about chasing the people that aren't watching them and instead focus on the fans they have and use the spot to keep fan favourites at the club for longer when there is overseas interest.
The nature of those "marquee" overseas players is it's a very brief love affair, thy are interesting at first but the effect wares of quick and you have to build up the profile of your players who will be there for 3 or more seasons to build up any affinity for the team.

As to the quality of the league it's a bit of a mish mash, overall it's probably better than the A league but it is much less even. When I watch the A league I know it well enough to know which games are likely to be good and which ones will be duds..... similar to the EPL I'm not going to watch Stoke vs Blackburn unless I'm bored but will make sure I'm watching Man City vs Man utd.

In Korea I am not as familiar with the teams or players so I could be watching Stoke vs Blackburn for all I know and a lot of the drama is lost on me because I don't know the back story.

From the little I have seen for a neutral I have learnt the following rules.

Pohang at home is worth a watch because there is usually a decent atmosphere in their stadium which does matter.
Seoul vs Suwon... watch it!

ACL games involving Chinese/West Asian opposition...Avoid, Avoid Avoid! There are some great moments (like the Suwon vs Qatar cheats game) but a lot of my worst experiences have been watching these games. It might improve a bit as a spectacle with the Chinese teams adding some star power now but they are the kings of Anti football.

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Re: Incheon United's New Stadium (under construction)

Postby anamerican » Sun Feb 12, 2012 1:17 pm

The latest nonsense...Seems the arena is located in two districts.

http://www.itvfm.co.kr/program/view.asp?pcode=news&bcode=news_article01&seq=334877

News....Link
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Re: Incheon United's New Stadium (under construction)

Postby willamangiro » Mon Feb 13, 2012 12:14 pm

Roarchild wrote:
willamangiro wrote:
I must say, although i'll be paying closer attention this year, the korean matches dont make a great spectacle on tv, do they? It reminds me of when I was young watching Barnet. In one game we beat Blackpool 7-0. In my mind we'd had about 50 chances in the game. Then I watched a video of the match, and discovered that most of these 'chances' were simply crosses into the box that looked far better from my position in the stadium then they actually were!
When football is good (like the EPL) then its very much suited for tv. But when its bad (and we've got to face facts, the k league is simply dire at times!) then tv isnt a great medium for it. I imagine seeing empty stadiums does little to impress people either.

I think there needs to be a new rule in the k-league, where the chaebols get together and create a centralised 'star player' fund. Each team gets an equal amount to spend on a player that must be a 'big name'; someone like Pires, Crespo etc who is past their best but still good enough for the kleague. Then you'd see tv coverage grow, interest grow, and ultimately attendances grow. But thats not going to happen unless the k league can take an element of the 'EPL experience' and sell it to the people of korea.



Australia has a similar system to what you are suggesting called the Marquee system. In Australia there is a salary cap so it's an important rule to make sure teams can add Star power if they want. In Korea the chaebols already have a lot of cash and the means to recruit name players if they want and I am sure one of them will stump up the cash to bring Park Ji Sung back when he is finished at United. The new Indian league is using that system too and it's a good interest boost for people that aren't following the league but for those already following they generally just prefer to see their team win matches. I think some teams have just stopped worrying so much about chasing the people that aren't watching them and instead focus on the fans they have and use the spot to keep fan favourites at the club for longer when there is overseas interest.
The nature of those "marquee" overseas players is it's a very brief love affair, thy are interesting at first but the effect wares of quick and you have to build up the profile of your players who will be there for 3 or more seasons to build up any affinity for the team.

As to the quality of the league it's a bit of a mish mash, overall it's probably better than the A league but it is much less even. When I watch the A league I know it well enough to know which games are likely to be good and which ones will be duds..... similar to the EPL I'm not going to watch Stoke vs Blackburn unless I'm bored but will make sure I'm watching Man City vs Man utd.

In Korea I am not as familiar with the teams or players so I could be watching Stoke vs Blackburn for all I know and a lot of the drama is lost on me because I don't know the back story.

From the little I have seen for a neutral I have learnt the following rules.

Pohang at home is worth a watch because there is usually a decent atmosphere in their stadium which does matter.
Seoul vs Suwon... watch it!

ACL games involving Chinese/West Asian opposition...Avoid, Avoid Avoid! There are some great moments (like the Suwon vs Qatar cheats game) but a lot of my worst experiences have been watching these games. It might improve a bit as a spectacle with the Chinese teams adding some star power now but they are the kings of Anti football.


Sorry Roarchild, I only just noticed your reply.

I agree that marquee players are purely for novelty purposes, and they dont normally stick around very long. Of course real fans just want to see their team win. But crucially, the number of 'real' fans in the k-league seems to be a very small number! You only need to look clubs like Jeju, Ulsan and Seongnam to see how criminally low some of the attendances are. Even at the more well supported clubs, how many of the people in attendance are 'fan girls' sceaming their undying love for one player or another throughout the game!?

You cant run before you can walk, and I feel thats what the k-league has tried to do; its set up a 'normal' football league with low key foreign imports, but the interest in the product isnt strong enough to sustain the clubs without the backing of the chaebols. If they all withdrew their money, most of the big 6 or 7 sides would be scrapping it out with daejeon and gangwon in terms of their funding; they certainly wouldnt be self-sustainable (maybe a couple like seoul, suwon etc would be, but they wouldnt be paying the same salaries and transfer fees that they are now!).

Wouldnt it make more sense develop two things at once; increase the long term standard of the game / domestic players so that fans feel invested in the team, but simultaniously bring in one or two marqee signings to pull in the crowds? What would be the harm in it, after all the clubs already import a number of sub-standard brazilians. Surely it would be a better idea to replace them with genuinely skilled big-name players?

The standard of the A-League might not be as good, but i love how fair it is. Its as close to the dream of 'socialist football' as we can probably get these days. Id love to see the K-league use something similar; put a salary cap in place, and crucially tie maximum wage to income as well. This would force clubs with low crowds to improve their marketing, and would remove the impact of Chaebol money on the league. For example, Seongnam would have to live within their means, and couldnt have extra money ploughed in by Rev Moon, as this would go against the salary regulations. The overall salary cap would stop the big boys becoming too dominant. Without the option of putting money into their individual teams, the owners should have to contribute to a centralised pot (a bit like the way the MLS works I think), which could be used to fund each teams marquee signing.

With that system you could see teams like Daegu and Incheon fighting it out with Seoul and Suwon for the title in the future, with a crowd actually invested in their team. I know it will never happen, but its great in theory! :D
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Re: Incheon United's New Stadium (under construction)

Postby SteveW » Mon Feb 13, 2012 7:01 pm

willamangiro wrote:Sorry Roarchild, I only just noticed your reply.

I agree that marquee players are purely for novelty purposes, and they dont normally stick around very long. Of course real fans just want to see their team win. But crucially, the number of 'real' fans in the k-league seems to be a very small number! You only need to look clubs like Jeju, Ulsan and Seongnam to see how criminally low some of the attendances are. Even at the more well supported clubs, how many of the people in attendance are 'fan girls' sceaming their undying love for one player or another throughout the game!?

You cant run before you can walk, and I feel thats what the k-league has tried to do; its set up a 'normal' football league with low key foreign imports, but the interest in the product isnt strong enough to sustain the clubs without the backing of the chaebols. If they all withdrew their money, most of the big 6 or 7 sides would be scrapping it out with daejeon and gangwon in terms of their funding; they certainly wouldnt be self-sustainable (maybe a couple like seoul, suwon etc would be, but they wouldnt be paying the same salaries and transfer fees that they are now!).

Wouldnt it make more sense develop two things at once; increase the long term standard of the game / domestic players so that fans feel invested in the team, but simultaniously bring in one or two marqee signings to pull in the crowds? What would be the harm in it, after all the clubs already import a number of sub-standard brazilians. Surely it would be a better idea to replace them with genuinely skilled big-name players?

The standard of the A-League might not be as good, but i love how fair it is. Its as close to the dream of 'socialist football' as we can probably get these days. Id love to see the K-league use something similar; put a salary cap in place, and crucially tie maximum wage to income as well. This would force clubs with low crowds to improve their marketing, and would remove the impact of Chaebol money on the league. For example, Seongnam would have to live within their means, and couldnt have extra money ploughed in by Rev Moon, as this would go against the salary regulations. The overall salary cap would stop the big boys becoming too dominant. Without the option of putting money into their individual teams, the owners should have to contribute to a centralised pot (a bit like the way the MLS works I think), which could be used to fund each teams marquee signing.

With that system you could see teams like Daegu and Incheon fighting it out with Seoul and Suwon for the title in the future, with a crowd actually invested in their team. I know it will never happen, but its great in theory! :D


I think the problem with 'marquee' signings is that you are going to have to compete with the MLS, Australia, China, the Middle East and the like to bring in 'names' and so you are either going to have to pay out more than they are worth or get players absolutely past it who will turn more off than they turn on when they see them.

To some extent the marquee signings in Korea are the WC2002 squad anyway and quite a number of them have found their way into K-League teams.

I don't really think the chaebols are that interested in losing even more millions on their football teams trying to bag Nicolas Anelka or Robbie Keane to come play for them for 6 months and someone like Derek Riordan isn't going to put bums on seats.
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Re: Incheon United's New Stadium (under construction)

Postby willamangiro » Tue Feb 14, 2012 10:33 am

SteveW wrote:
willamangiro wrote:Sorry Roarchild, I only just noticed your reply.

I agree that marquee players are purely for novelty purposes, and they dont normally stick around very long. Of course real fans just want to see their team win. But crucially, the number of 'real' fans in the k-league seems to be a very small number! You only need to look clubs like Jeju, Ulsan and Seongnam to see how criminally low some of the attendances are. Even at the more well supported clubs, how many of the people in attendance are 'fan girls' sceaming their undying love for one player or another throughout the game!?

You cant run before you can walk, and I feel thats what the k-league has tried to do; its set up a 'normal' football league with low key foreign imports, but the interest in the product isnt strong enough to sustain the clubs without the backing of the chaebols. If they all withdrew their money, most of the big 6 or 7 sides would be scrapping it out with daejeon and gangwon in terms of their funding; they certainly wouldnt be self-sustainable (maybe a couple like seoul, suwon etc would be, but they wouldnt be paying the same salaries and transfer fees that they are now!).

Wouldnt it make more sense develop two things at once; increase the long term standard of the game / domestic players so that fans feel invested in the team, but simultaniously bring in one or two marqee signings to pull in the crowds? What would be the harm in it, after all the clubs already import a number of sub-standard brazilians. Surely it would be a better idea to replace them with genuinely skilled big-name players?

The standard of the A-League might not be as good, but i love how fair it is. Its as close to the dream of 'socialist football' as we can probably get these days. Id love to see the K-league use something similar; put a salary cap in place, and crucially tie maximum wage to income as well. This would force clubs with low crowds to improve their marketing, and would remove the impact of Chaebol money on the league. For example, Seongnam would have to live within their means, and couldnt have extra money ploughed in by Rev Moon, as this would go against the salary regulations. The overall salary cap would stop the big boys becoming too dominant. Without the option of putting money into their individual teams, the owners should have to contribute to a centralised pot (a bit like the way the MLS works I think), which could be used to fund each teams marquee signing.

With that system you could see teams like Daegu and Incheon fighting it out with Seoul and Suwon for the title in the future, with a crowd actually invested in their team. I know it will never happen, but its great in theory! :D


I think the problem with 'marquee' signings is that you are going to have to compete with the MLS, Australia, China, the Middle East and the like to bring in 'names' and so you are either going to have to pay out more than they are worth or get players absolutely past it who will turn more off than they turn on when they see them.

To some extent the marquee signings in Korea are the WC2002 squad anyway and quite a number of them have found their way into K-League teams.

I don't really think the chaebols are that interested in losing even more millions on their football teams trying to bag Nicolas Anelka or Robbie Keane to come play for them for 6 months and someone like Derek Riordan isn't going to put bums on seats.


I think you're absolutely right, the chaebols really dont care enough to put that kind of funding into their teams, and it would be pointless having b-list western stars as you say. In theory I think it would be good, and lets face it- Samsung are big enough to pay for genuine world class players if they wanted to (and they wanted to come!)

I actually think that the growth of the other leagues could change that a bit. At the moment the K-League is relatively uncontested as the best league in asia, so theres really no incentive for the big companies to invest. But if the money from Qatar, UAE, China, and maybe even India in the future starts to improve their teams, then maybe we'll have a competitive ACL on our hands. And seeing as the chaebols are very nationalistic, this might get them spending for the sake of koreas place in the asian pecking order.
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Re: Incheon United's New Stadium (under construction)

Postby Rothesay Saint » Tue Feb 14, 2012 2:07 pm

Getting players well past there best is the problem with marquee names. That was pretty much Ahn Jung-hwan's problem, he was getting a million a year yet wasn't good enough to make the first team at Suwon.

Getting foreign players that raises the standard of the league and then making them into stars is maybe a better way to go. The fact that Deyan is attracting such large bids from China looks good for the K-league and him, I am sure FC Seoul will be making sure that it helps raise the number of ticktets sold too.
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Re: Incheon United's New Stadium (under construction)

Postby Holyjoe » Wed Feb 15, 2012 11:19 pm

Rothesay Saint wrote:Getting foreign players that raises the standard of the league and then making them into stars is maybe a better way to go. The fact that Deyan is attracting such large bids from China looks good for the K-league and him, I am sure FC Seoul will be making sure that it helps raise the number of ticktets sold too.


That's what I've always liked about the foreign player transfer policies of most Korean clubs and why I'm not overly keen on then plundering the Brazilian state leagues every six months - clubs could go down the J-League or C-League route of throwing megabucks at big name players looking for one last pay day, and there have been reports in the past of Suwon making enquiries for Henrik Larsson, Gabriel Batistuta and Hernan Crespo, but in the main the bigger clubs have been recruiting from Europe with one eye on improving the squad and the other on selling the chap on. Loads of European imports have moved on from K-League clubs to the J-League: Sasa Drakulic, Mato Neretljak, Alpay Ozalan, Zoltan Sabo, Pavel Badea and Gabriel Popescu all spring to mind as players that K-League clubs have imported and then moved on to Japan for good money. Most European imports have been capped at least at U21 level, plenty have full caps too (which always makes me laugh when I get an email from folk who have played amateur football in Ireland for a season or two and want to know how to go about joining a K-League club for the duration of their teaching contract). Latterly the clubs have been touting themselves as stepping stones to Europe for Brazilians not good enough to go direct, and that has worked in part for players such as Mota and Marcel, but the lack of quality control regarding imports and the apparent rush just to fill two or three foreign player spots with the first players whose highlights DVDs drop through the clubhouse letterbox is negating that.

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Re: Incheon United's New Stadium (under construction)

Postby Roarchild » Thu Feb 16, 2012 10:39 am

Holyjoe wrote: Most European imports have been capped at least at U21 level, plenty have full caps too (which always makes me laugh when I get an email from folk who have played amateur football in Ireland for a season or two and want to know how to go about joining a K-League club for the duration of their teaching contract).


Even if they have understandably never seen a K league game surely they knew Korea made the second round of the world cup... How did these people get a university degree?

:)

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Re: Incheon United's New Stadium (under construction)

Postby mustoe02 » Thu Feb 16, 2012 1:24 pm

...which reminds me, I once scored an absolute wondergoal on the playground at Primary school with Richard Mason in goal- HJ, I'm pretty sure Jeonbuk still have a foreigner space open, what chance is there for me? :smt115

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Re: Incheon United's New Stadium (under construction)

Postby Rothesay Saint » Thu Feb 16, 2012 1:47 pm

mustoe02 wrote:...which reminds me, I once scored an absolute wondergoal on the playground at Primary school with Richard Mason in goal- HJ, I'm pretty sure Jeonbuk still have a foreigner space open, what chance is there for me? :smt115


Dickie Mason crapped himself every time the ball came near him and he couldn't catch a cold.

I'm already in the area, and I used to be able to do about 50 keepie-ups. HJ, feel free to pass on my number to Jeonbuk.
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Re: Incheon United's New Stadium (under construction)

Postby mustoe02 » Thu Feb 16, 2012 3:14 pm

Foiled again! :smt090

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Re: Incheon United's New Stadium (under construction)

Postby Holyjoe » Fri Feb 24, 2012 9:32 am

The official name for the stadium is the fantastically clever and imaginative 인천축구전용경기장 (Incheon football-specific stadium). That's rubbish. They're citing the current dispute between Nam-gu and Jung-gu officials over whose district the stadium actually belongs in as the reason they're not calling it something like the Sungeui Arena or allowing Incheon United to call it the Black And Blue But Actually Now Blue And A Little Bit Of Red Dream Bowl...

Notice they weren't exactly fighting over ownership of the place when it was the crumbling dust bucket of old that Incheon Korail used to call home... ah happy days.

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Re: Incheon United's New Stadium (under construction)

Postby Sampo » Mon Feb 27, 2012 12:16 pm

I've circled the tenth on at least three of my calendars, but I wonder if any knows about parking in the area around the stadium? I haven't spent any time in Incheon proper and don't know it well at all.

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Re: Incheon United's New Stadium (under construction)

Postby Cyclops » Mon Feb 27, 2012 2:20 pm

There are a lot of small shops nearby (mostly plumbing and building supplies etc) that are mostly closed on Sundays, so street parking should be possible. Otherwise park up the line and get a subway/taxi in.

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Re: Incheon United's New Stadium (under construction)

Postby sjc_three » Mon Feb 27, 2012 2:22 pm

Sampo wrote:I've circled the tenth on at least three of my calendars, but I wonder if any knows about parking in the area around the stadium? I haven't spent any time in Incheon proper and don't know it well at all.

I would guess that parking around the stadium will be fine on the 10th. The game isn't until the 11th. :smt117


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