2014 Challengers League season

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Sampo
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Re: 2014 Challengers League season

Postby Sampo » Fri Dec 05, 2014 7:44 pm

Back when Bucheon was in the the K3, they published their monthly schedules, and they only had two organized practices a week, and I remember the players not being paid on salary, but rather on performance. Something like 700 thousand for a win, 300 for a draw, and nothing for a loss.

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Re: 2014 Challengers League season

Postby eujin » Fri Dec 05, 2014 7:50 pm

Wasn't there some Brazilian guy hanging around the Bucheon team back when foreigners weren't allowed to play in K3? What was his deal? Was he studying, working, married to a Korean...? Were the team giving him any money?

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Re: 2014 Challengers League season

Postby Holyjoe » Fri Dec 05, 2014 8:02 pm

Bucheon had two foreign folk hanging around; Jerry Kaka (Congolese, I think) and Sebastian Numann (French/German, he's posted on here in the past) and I'm sure they were both students. Jerry seems to have stuck around in Korea for years and sounds as though he's got Korean nationality now. He actually transferred from Bucheon to Seoul United a couple of years back, quite interesting they'd go to the bother of doing that for someone who clearly was not allowed to play in the league. I suppose it's the same as Jeonju FC signing the two East Timor players as in the first post of this thread, though if they're still around then they'll be able to play from 2015.

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Re: 2014 Challengers League season

Postby SteveW » Fri Dec 05, 2014 9:58 pm

eujin wrote:
SteveW wrote:Practicing with and being legally allowed to play are two different things though. Immigration will be involved.

Immigration will surely only be directly involved if they get paid. Are the Martyr's players getting paid? Wasn't Cyclops on here a while back explaining that some teams in K3 practice twice a week? A hobby is a hobby.


No...you can't even do unpaid/volunteer work legally without immigration getting involved. You can't even do things that aren't really work if I remember rightly - wasn't there a case where some am-dram group upset the wrong people and got thumbed by immigration?

I would imagine if foreigners were coming in and offering to play for free and depriving Koreans of employment there would be an uproar.

Although even for free Escudero would probably still be unwanted.
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Re: 2014 Challengers League season

Postby SeoulUtd » Fri Dec 05, 2014 10:16 pm

Pochun's staff said to me both two players can play same time.

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Re: 2014 Challengers League season

Postby eujin » Fri Dec 05, 2014 11:04 pm

SteveW wrote:
eujin wrote:
SteveW wrote:Practicing with and being legally allowed to play are two different things though. Immigration will be involved.

Immigration will surely only be directly involved if they get paid. Are the Martyr's players getting paid? Wasn't Cyclops on here a while back explaining that some teams in K3 practice twice a week? A hobby is a hobby.


No...you can't even do unpaid/volunteer work legally without immigration getting involved. You can't even do things that aren't really work if I remember rightly - wasn't there a case where some am-dram group upset the wrong people and got thumbed by immigration?

I don't think this is true, but I'm not an expert and I'm certainly not qualified to give legal advice. But I believe that it is legal to volunteer at an orphange say while working in Korea on a teaching visa and I believe even more so that it is OK to play football for an amateur football team while on a student visa.

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Re: 2014 Challengers League season

Postby OttoSilver » Fri Dec 05, 2014 11:28 pm

As far as I know students are allowed to work, but they are limited in what they can do and how long. That is if my friend who was studying here was not lying about her part time job.
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Re: 2014 Challengers League season

Postby Sampo » Sat Dec 06, 2014 7:20 am

Students can work, but need, legally, need some extra paperwork taken care of and are limited to 20 hours or less a week. If my classmates are anything to go by, one student out of fifty actually goes through the legal process, and the rest just work under the table. Guess who was the one dork who went through the legal process! :D

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Re: 2014 Challengers League season

Postby Alex43 » Sat Dec 06, 2014 9:48 am

i looked into it briefly when i was a student, but ended up staying on an E visa anyways... students can work, but only after 6 months of being here. then, jobs and times are limited (i think they want to minimize money flow so that everyone does just become a 'student' to make a living here). there was some stipulation about being able to teach your mother language through tutoring classes, but you could only charge 20,000 and hour i tihnk. maybe some brazilian can convince he speaks football, make his 20,000 and hour here playing for a lower league team?
well well well

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Re: 2014 Challengers League season

Postby SteveW » Sat Dec 06, 2014 9:51 am

Sampo wrote:Students can work, but need, legally, need some extra paperwork taken care of and are limited to 20 hours or less a week. If my classmates are anything to go by, one student out of fifty actually goes through the legal process, and the rest just work under the table. Guess who was the one dork who went through the legal process! :D


Yeah, that's the thing. 99 times out of 100 people will just work and nobody will care. Until you piss someone off or cause trouble and then they find the immigration card to throw at you.

But someone playing football in front of a crowd and live on TV (ish) is going to get a lot of attention, relatively. So they better be squeaky clean. I imagine the KFA will also need immigration to clear them before they even register them as players.

As for volunteering, my understanding is that you need to get permission from immigration whether you get paid or not - that doesn't mean it's illegal to do it, but you need permission. I think it may also depend on which visa you have of course.
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Re: 2014 Challengers League season

Postby Martyrs Forever » Sat Dec 06, 2014 12:25 pm

Are Martyrs paid?

It's a calling not a job! We get paid in Credits in Heaven...

Still I feel certain I could do a job in central midfield....and i'm 38.....at least I'd CARE!

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Re: 2014 Challengers League season

Postby SteveW » Sat Dec 06, 2014 3:23 pm

Martyrs Forever wrote:Are Martyrs paid?

It's a calling not a job! We get paid in Credits in Heaven...

Still I feel certain I could do a job in central midfield....and i'm 38.....at least I'd CARE!


I think they get a win bonus. :P
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Re: 2014 Challengers League season

Postby eujin » Sat Dec 06, 2014 8:41 pm

So I hope we're not saying that everyone playing in the expats leagues are violating the law unless they tell immigration about it.

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Re: 2014 Challengers League season

Postby SteveW » Sat Dec 06, 2014 9:55 pm

They might well be...I have no idea how organised the expat leagues are and what view immigration would take of them. However, as I said nobody is going to care if its just guys turning up for a kickabout. But as soon as you get to the point where you are registered with the KFA as a player for a club in a proper league set up I would think you would have to be 100% legit.
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Re: 2014 Challengers League season

Postby eujin » Sat Dec 06, 2014 10:09 pm

SteveW wrote:They might well be...I have no idea how organised the expat leagues are and what view immigration would take of them. However, as I said nobody is going to care if its just guys turning up for a kickabout. But as soon as you get to the point where you are registered with the KFA as a player for a club in a proper league set up I would think you would have to be 100% legit.
The expat leagues are quite organised. They have proper leagues, promotion/relegation, KFA affiliated refs...

We definitely had players playing in New Zealand tier-3 who were non-Kiwis. Some were residents, but others were on student visas or even refugees. All of us were registered with the New Zealand FA and as none of us were getting formally paid I highly doubt we were breaking any immigration laws. I also know of several people playing non-league football in the UK on student visas who will be registered with the FA.

Not that either of those countries has any bearing on what the law is in Korea. They might invent special rules for the Challengers League, but the difference isn't easy to see if they don't pay the players, don't charge entrance fees and don't spend most of their time doing it. If they're getting paid then it's a different matter.

Those actors in Busan were charging an entrance fee, which is suspicious enough if not strictly illegal. They were also allegedly criticising Korea which could violate the prohibition on acting against the national interest and the prohibition on political activity.


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